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bmxundergrounddotcom wrote:

I say leave it the same unless somebody is going to subsidize the difference.

Bigger payouts and more investment keep the tensions high and bring out the bigger names.

I had a lot of complainers last year that the Ams have to lay out $40 (20 for the open and 20 for class) and the pros only have to lay out $20. I know it would be easy to say raise pro reg. But that's unrealistic. So I thought that making it a $30 investment for the ams would work too.
Still haven't heard from Rose on the email that I sent last month to her and the entire NBL staff.
As a matter of fact hear it is so we are all on the same page.

Rose,

I've been trying to contact you via email and phone since the last state meeting (Nov 15) on a few questions that I have. I have sent emails to you on 11/21, 11/26, 12/1 and two emails on 12/4. I also managed to leave a voicemail on 12/15. All means of contact have gone unanswered. Hopefully by sending this email out to so many recipients, I'll get some type of reply.

What is needed to qualify to race the 2009 NY Championship race.
Is it:
5 qualifiers and 5 locals, or
5 qualifiers and 10 locals but only counting the best 5
and did you do away with the 10 locals (and take your best 6) as an alternate way of qualifying for people who can't afford to travel, but would still like to race the championship?

I have set the Pro/Am series up with 6 qualifiers plus the championship race. You will only need to have 3 qualifiers to race the pro/am championship. People can race more than 3, but only the best 3 scores will count. This was done through rider input. The general consensus was that less races required would in turn lead to higher rider counts and more people could race the championship. Last season there were several riders who could not make the 4th race needed and could not race the championship.

I know that since the NBL ruling is in order to race an open, riders must also register for their respective class. That's where things get a little complicated.

A rider races his 3 pro/am qualifiers and is eligible to race the pro/am championship race. But in order to race the pro/am championship that rider must also be qualified to race the NYS championship (per NBL rules) which needs (I think) 5 qualifiers plus 10 locals. I think that will keep people away from both series. Unless some type of compromise could be reached. Either by giving riders a discount off of their NY qualifier fees if they are racing the pro/am race that day. Maybe charge those riders $15 to sign up for their class instead of the normal $20? This would also demonstrate NY's support for the series. It would also put additional money into the state series since riders who normally would not race in NY would be drawn to the pro/am, but they would still have to pay for their regular class. These riders that show with the intention of racing the pro/am but really aren't interested in a NY plate would have to be on the gate and ready to race with their respective class whether they decide to roll the gate is their choice. This would eliminate ghost riding.

The next item concerns a potential sponsor for the pro/am series. I have spoken with Jimmy Mac at Bulldog bikes. He is interested in helping the pro/am series out this year. But he did have a request. Bulldog has primarily been a company that supports freestyle and dirt jumping. They have several of the top riders in the X Games and Dew Tour on their roster. He wanted to know if their was any possible way for them to host a dirt jump contest at one of the state qualifiers. Sort of like a halftime event between races. Bulldog would put up any prizes (money or otherwise) with no cost to the state or the host track. Would you be interested in having something like that at a race? Would there be an issue of insurance? My automatic thinking was Kingston for such an event, since the second straight and pro section are set up for this type of riding. I have spoken with Joey Albright about it and he supported the idea. The main sticking points are insurance and permission from you. Bulldog would be a natural fit for the pro/am series since they are based out of NYC and have had a few of their riders race the pro/am races in the past.

Has it been decided what point system is going to be used for the NYS series? I would like to avoid the confusion of last year and get some type of answer as to how the series is going to be run. Will there be mains again? Will it be a "total points" series or will there be a cap like last year that did not count the main points unless you did not score a perfect in the motos? That system seemed to reward riders that did not win, or punish riders who did. Where is the motivation to win if a rider knows he will be scoring the same amount of points if he does not score a perfect as a rider who does? It also promoted sandbagging in rookie and novice. Allowing riders to score the same amount of points, but not getting a move up point.

I have set up a website for the pro/am series. It's www.kingoftheempire.com . I have provided a link on there to the NYS website. Would it be possible for whoever is running the state site to provide a link to the pro/am site? This way everyone is on the same page and it would eliminate the confusion between the two sites. It also frees up a little bit of space on the state site by keeping the pro/am info on a separate site.

I spoke with Pam a couple weeks ago. She said that the last meeting minutes were sent to you. When can we expect to see those posted on the website? If you can't get them on the website, could you please email them to me? In particular, I would like to confirm that they include the motion, vote and subsequent suspension of the state by-laws in order to hold the elections.

According to the state by-laws there is a spending cap of $200, other than normal operating costs. Anything over that amount has to be approved by the board. (Article X, Section A, Item 5) Was a board vote completed in all these instances? And are those votes on record?

I strongly feel that in order for BOTH series to grow there has to be better communication between you and anybody that needs your assistance whether it be myself, a rider or parent, or your fellow board members. Nothing is going to be accomplished by ignoring attempts to contact you. Timely responses on your part would prevent a lot of confusion and hurt feelings later on. If it is not possible to reach you via the email or phone number that you have listed. Perhaps there should be an alternate point of contact. I would also like to suggest that you look into going onto Nick Rauch's website www.bmxunderground.com and see what it is the riders of the state series would like to see. It could be an invaluable way of keeping riders informed on what changes are being made to their state series. And is much easier than updating the state website.

Your attention to these matters is appreciated.

Clint Bonnett
_________________
Clint Bonnett
http://www.myspace.com/airportff

Quote:

Tell the whiners to turn pro.

These guys, especially with how things are stacking up and the job you are doing to promote, get to race some of the best riders on the East Coast for half the cost of a National. Take Kingston for example: we had AA Pro Phil Delizia, Allen Currier - no slouch in Super-X, Joey Albright consistent main maker in Super-X, Pat Parker - former National Champion, the list goes on. I'm just saying that if you want people to show up and race you have two realistic options - 1. make them pay to play and get paid, or 2. make sure the race is subsidized to a point that it will draw.

I would think it would be in the state's interest to throw a chunk of change in the pot for the first couple races at least to get people there. The big thought process there is that for example when I used to do the Opens at CNY and Rotterdam it was a matter of "Hey, come here it's a guaranteed $200 purse." It is a lot more attractive to travel and get in to race it with that mindset.

-Random thoughts
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Nicholas Rauch
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http://www.bmxunderground.com
nick@bmxunderground.com

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well since emails and phone calls dont seem to get the message across to rose maybe we should do some kind of petition thing like i have suggested in the past. yes i know petitions sound gay but sometimes they do work.

either that or we get a good amount of riders to boycott the state series. the state series is fun but if rose and the board are not going to play by the rules or make any attempt to listen to the riders, why should we spend our money on something that we get no input in.

personally if i had the gas money to do it i would rather race the nj or ct state series.
_________________
richie smith

www.essentialbmx.weebly.com
Owner
Operator
Writer
Critic

I heard that there were some rumblings going on at the Presidents Cup pertaining to the NY riders not receiving the money they get for competing at this race.

Was there any resolution to this dilemma? Or are the rumors true that the money somehow became missing?

I would love some input here.
_________________
Bye for now,

Jeff

TAKE THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY AND YOU HAVE LIFE. WELCOME! NOW HANG ON AND RIDE.

as far as i know everyone got their check i didnt race it but steve got his day after
_________________
hit up HUBIES restaurant/pizzaria or their catering or wood stove shop

AdvanceCycleryRider wrote:

We got it for Matt. Kenny Aman got his.
The issue was with Justin Ledoux and the $500 he won for designing the jersey. It was originally billed as $500 to get you to the president's cup. Then it changed to "up to" $500 for the president's cup.
Rose expected him to go there and then submit receipts for reimbursement. Keep in mind, just his expenses. Not his mother, who drove him there.
That why I yelled "Give it to Ledoux" when tedesco gave her the check on Sunday morning.
_________________
Clint Bonnett
http://www.myspace.com/airportff

rsmith wrote:

It's not lack of communication with the entire board. They can't get hold of Rose either
_________________
Clint Bonnett
http://www.myspace.com/airportff

AirportFF wrote:

I spoke with Pam a couple weeks ago. She said that the last meeting minutes were sent to you. When can we expect to see those posted on the website? If you can't get them on the website, could you please email them to me? In particular, I would like to confirm that they include the motion, vote and subsequent suspension of the state by-laws in order to hold the elections.

According to the state by-laws there is a spending cap of $200, other than normal operating costs. Anything over that amount has to be approved by the board. (Article X, Section A, Item 5) Was a board vote completed in all these instances? And are those votes on record?

These two things should concern everyone the most. You CANNOT suspend the by laws to hold an election. And if you do the election is null & void unless the laws are revised. This is the question that was asked on robertsrules.com

Question: Can bylaws be suspended at a meeting in order to vote for new board members if the people in attendance are not qualified for a board position according to said bylaws?

Answer 1: Not unless the vote to suspend the bylaws is a sufficient vote to amend them (and it should be handled as an amendment, perhaps a temporary one). In the default case and without previous notice, this will be a vote of the majority of the entire membership.

Answer 2: No. If you go ahead and do so anyhow, the action will be null and void. See p244, RONR (10th ed).

The next thing is use of the state money. The bylaws clearly state that the maximum spending limit is $200, without board approval. Anything more than that there has to be a vote of the board. So, how is it when I asked Bill Martin at the state banquet how much it cost, he said "I have no idea" (the cost was damn near 5 grand BTW). So how was 5k spent and the asst. commisioner didn't know it? Barb Zbikowski was the treasurer and hadn't had possesion of the checkbook or records during the entire year. That's why she wanted out, and I don't blame her. The financial statement at the next meeting is going to be real interesting.
_________________
Clint Bonnett
http://www.myspace.com/airportff

Clint,
I am almost positive that the state is going to go into the next season with a deficit..(please note I said almost positive not that I am positive) and it really sucks when you think of how much there was when we started the year out. The money was just spent with no thought. Also I know that there is at least 1 family that did not get their money yet for the presidents cup. I think that any requests for discounted race fees will have to be put on the back burner until or when the state finances get under control and more money is saved by cutting back. I wish the state and all it's riders good luck and I hope that the race fees don"t have to be raised to get through the next season.

bmxmomx2 wrote:

I kinda thought that myself. I know that a lot of money was spent this year, and ridership was down across the board for the most part.

I had mentioned the discount in Virginia, she seemed pretty responsive. But if the books are in that bad of shape. I'll just go to plan B.

She gave me my check the following morning. After P Cup. Did the other family track her down there? I'm sure it was an honest mistake. Can't see her deliberately not paying 1 family.
_________________
Clint Bonnett
http://www.myspace.com/airportff

I don"t think she deliberately didn"t pay this family but it doesn't seem that she was organized at all. I remember Jerry made a list of riders there and then went to each family and wrote them the check. Nobody ever had to hunt him down to get paid. If he did miss someone he knew it then and made sure they got reimbursed right away. Again it is just lack of organization and communication skills at work.

What was the $5,000 spent on?
_________________
Bye for now,

Jeff

TAKE THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY AND YOU HAVE LIFE. WELCOME! NOW HANG ON AND RIDE.

AdvanceCycleryRider wrote:

What was the $5,000 spent on?

the state banquet was $4700 I believe. I don't know if that number includes the jersey's, trophies and other awards.
Now keep in mind that she hadn't figured all the people that paid $15 each to attend. So once that is done, it will lower the actual number that the state paid. But there is no way that the $15 per will offset $4700.
_________________
Clint Bonnett
http://www.myspace.com/airportff

First of all, I respect Rose for taking on the task. But, she did seem slightly disorganized and I think that there should have either been more support or more discussion of what was taking place.

Now, I see a lot of problems taking place. I think what really needs to be examined is the feasibility of continuing to pay race fees at the President's Cup.

I also see no need to continue with the state wide banquet concept.

I voiced concerns last year when they had the food at the actual President's Cup as well.

Honestly consider the cost vs. the percentage of the population who race state races served. I think that there are probably a couple hundred who race the state series as an actual series, doing several qualifiers and the state championship. This as compared to the twenty to thirty that go to the President's Cup. That is about a 10% benefit.

Now factor in that 10% population benefit in comparison to the overall spending of the State organization. Take 30 riders, put jerseys on their backs and give them their race fees right?

30 or so riders means about $1500 to $2000 in jerseys, depending on the company. Then factor in the race fees and you have about $1500 or more in race fees for the riders - assuming a few race two classes.

In my opinion it is all just crazy.

The money spent just doesn't make sense for the moto counts we draw and the returns we see from sending kids to that race.

$3000 dollars is a large chunk of change. Factor in Banquets and other expenses and you are deep in the hole.

As far as the woman giving up the treasury, I absolutely cannot blame her since she is, I believe, legally liable for the monetary aspects of that corporation. I can't even comprehend a check going out without at least two members of the board having signatures on it.

Anyway, enough ranting for tonight.
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i feel having something set up to get riders to the pres cup such as a bus trip where the ride there an back is covered and book a bunch of rooms so u get huge discount and maybe cover 10 a night of the discounted rate also.... i feel that would be better use of the money and get ALOT more riders to the pres cup... also promote the race a bit more since most people probably dont even know about it or atleast any signifigant info on it
_________________
hit up HUBIES restaurant/pizzaria or their catering or wood stove shop

Quote:

i feel having something set up to get riders to the pres cup such as a bus trip where the ride there an back is covered

Expensive.

They tried it a couple years ago.

Train wreck.
_________________
Nicholas Rauch
Owner/Webmaster
http://www.bmxunderground.com
nick@bmxunderground.com

- BmxUnderground.com - Advanced Cyclery, CNYBikes.com (315) 449-BIKE - ProfileRacing.com -

nooooo canceling paying for entrys... 40 or 50bucks is something that most people can handle..... having vehicle capable of taking u there an back and covering cost of the ride is the hard part... i think they could do that much cheaper than paying entrys... and hotel as i said just booking several rooms would get u discount usually and if they just covered 10 a night of everyones room that even less than entry fees and makes the whole trip appealing to state riders...... thought is that people look at it as i only got 200 in hotel and 100 in entrys........ instead of ok i have to cover 100-150 in gas (at current prices) and another 300 in hotels 100 150 in entrys.... suppose its more sales technique to get state riders there than spending more money... or even if they allocate certain amount towards it and have riders chip in 20 towards the bus and pay room in full but at our discounted rates... things along those lines
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hit up HUBIES restaurant/pizzaria or their catering or wood stove shop

I understand the concept, and if it worked well it would be a good idea.

The problem is when you arrange a bus trip, nothing goes as scheduled or planned and in order for it to work it HAS to go as scheduled and planned.

I remember when they did it two or three years ago they left Christmas night - people were late, things went wrong and many people missed their first practices. Then they had to jet back as soon as mains were over after the President Cup - didn't stay for the classic.
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Nicholas Rauch
Owner/Webmaster
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nick@bmxunderground.com

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well thats thing... i think if they had a late trip say leaving 8 or 9 xmas night since everyone can sleep on bus on way down..... then one pick up in albany say at 8 and next in binghamton at around 10 or so... that way u could get people from most places an so on...... and no more than 5mins of waiting for anytone kinda thing.. just my thought on it working since rt 17 is right there then bus can hit that and off ya go... and u have to stay for whole classic and give a lil time for everyone to be ready an on bus... maybe give everyone 15min after last main or half hour to get to bus and start loading.. i think reason it didnt work is after people go that far for the xmas classic they arnt gonna go for 1 night they will stay for next 2 days and race the nationals too
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hit up HUBIES restaurant/pizzaria or their catering or wood stove shop

Problem with having bus go out and stay for entire 3 days of racing is that unless the driver wants to donate his or her time they have to be paid for the entire time from start of trip to the bitter end. Also the state would have to pay for all expenses for the driver (ie:hotel room and 3 meals a day) all this adds up. I believe that 2 years ago the state kicked in money and the people on the bus paid $50/person and the person who set it up still lost money. I think it was decided years ago that best way to do this is pay race fee and for jersey, it was the least expensive thing to do.

i know you guys are gonna laugh at me but i would be interested in somehow getting on the ny state board.

it would prolly be impossible though since i have a bad rep espically in ny.

but we need someone who is a rider on the board.

i honestly would try to do everything i could for the riders if somehow i got on the board. i would find ways to promote the series better. improve the state team aspect. get things more organized as a whole. and ask questions as to were every cent of the money is going.

i know i have a bad rep which sucks but i really love bmx racing and getting on the board would help me do everything i can to improve the sport i love.

ny has such a great rider base and really good tracks. the state series should be doing way better then it is.

my thoughts on how to improve the state series are:

lower fees.
better money managment.
pro am. which clint btw does a great job with but the state needs to kick a little in to make a guarnted purse that will attract riders.
more fun things to do at the qualifyers.

things like: bunny hop contests.
and like alot of the things nbl does at nationals.

also i think if during the intermissions, or after the qualifyers pros and top ams would do clinics that would be awesome.

do something for the pros if they do a clinic as well like they pay half of the entry fee for the pro open instead of full.

and have like little meet and greets with some of the pros and top ams from the area.

idk just random thoughts.
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richie smith

www.essentialbmx.weebly.com
Owner
Operator
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well the clinic after is good idea... id say that instead of covering entrys into pro am and hurting finances make them teach the clinic for hour or 2 to cover the fact that they dont have to race class like the ams do
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hit up HUBIES restaurant/pizzaria or their catering or wood stove shop

lexusison20s wrote:

Delizia, Joey, Pat Parker and Matt did a clinic last year after the Saturday state qualifier at Kingston. It was a good time. Especially when Phil flipped the gate. I think I have it on video somewhere....
_________________
Clint Bonnett
http://www.myspace.com/airportff

I use to race the series from 2004-2006. 2006 was the ending for me. There were 3 riders total in my 35 & over novice class. We were always combined with 17 & over novices but pointed together. The Championship race was held on a rainy morning, where I drove 4 hrs to get to a track to find out it wasn't even covered. I sat around for 3 or so hrs to race a combined Championship. I couldn't race against the other rider in my age group because he was in the other moto. It just seemed like a big JOKE!

I vowed then I would never race another series again.

But from what I recall, NYS paid for the #1 riders jerseys, entry fees for the Presidents Cup race for everyone and I believe it was $50 spending money. Or something similar to that.

Now spending $4700 on a banquet, that only produces say maybe 20-30 riders to attend the Presidents Cup, doesn't seem like money well spent.

Why not discount the Championship race? Or kick in to the promotional aspect for the series? Or kick in to the pro/am? Or save the money and put it into an indoor facility?

I believe the biggest reason as to the dwindling #'s in the series is the fact that the Nationals, Regionals, locals and the State series are all fighting for the same days/weekends. We only have maybe 12 or 14 good weekends of racing locally.

I believe that if we could race all year round, the #'s would increase. Kids may not play their other off-season sports if they could race instead. The popularity of the sport would increase as a result. Kids wouldn't be prone to sitting in front of their computer or video games as much during the rainy or snowy months, if they could ride their bikes.
_________________
Bye for now,

Jeff

TAKE THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY AND YOU HAVE LIFE. WELCOME! NOW HANG ON AND RIDE.

Quote:

I believe that if we could race all year round, the #'s would increase. Kids may not play their other off-season sports if they could race instead. The popularity of the sport would increase as a result. Kids wouldn't be prone to sitting in front of their computer or video games as much during the rainy or snowy months, if they could ride their bikes.

Like me? haha thats all im really doin in the off season now that im not doin soccer anymore. besides maybe riding my park bike once a week... that's about it. I'm dieing to get on my race bike and ride.
_________________
Justin Wade

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