 |
| The Political Pub
News, Politics and General Discussion |
 |
|
| Author |
Message |
jazzbro
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 509
|
| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: Car theft is complet |
|
|
It's almost a sport and many of the participants aren't even old enough to drive. It's gone on long enough.
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/story/4167993p-4755967c.html
"I don't care what political party wants to take credit -- just do something,"
FEDERAL politicians are ignoring the city's pleas for help combatting auto theft, an irate Mayor Sam Katz said in reaction to news that a 16-year-old girl involved in an accident that killed a cab driver was freed Tuesday only to breach conditions of her release one day later.
"It wasn't shock or surprise; I just felt disgusted, absolutely disgusted," Katz said Thursday.
Katz said the city and the province have put money into dealing with reoffending youths and violent auto thieves -- but Ottawa has not come through.
On Tuesday, the girl pleaded guilty to possession of property obtained by crime for her role as a passenger in the speeding, stolen SUV that ran a red light and killed a Winnipeg cabbie on March 29. In a videotaped statement given to police, she expressed no remorse for the slain cabbie's death.
The teen went missing only a day after she was released, prompting a search by already resource-strapped police and probation officers to locate her.
The girl was ordered by the courts to maintain a 24-hour curfew at her family's North End home but she took off after 5 p.m. Wednesday, prompting her parents to phone police.
Police confirmed Thursday afternoon that officers in their stolen auto unit had found her and had taken her into custody.
"Enough is enough," Katz said.
In the last year, Katz said the city has taken steps to deal with the problem, including doubling the number of officers in the stolen auto unit to 10, adding a licence-plate scanner to help identify stolen vehicles faster, and increasing the police budget.
Katz added these measures prove the city has been leading the charge to deal with Winnipeg's auto-theft problem. It has long been decrying the "catch and release" nature of the youth justice system.
The city is currently studying the impact on resources that rearresting offenders for breaching court orders has on the Winnipeg Police Service.
Katz said it's high time the federal government take the type of actions that police, the city and provincial government asked for more than seven months ago.
The mayor was part of a delegation that went to Ottawa last fall to ask for changes to the Criminal Code in order to deal with Winnipeg's acute problems with car thieves and gangs.
He said at the time MPs listened, but in the end not much got done -- and while a recent announcement of legislation to deal with organized auto-theft rings was probably welcome news to cities such as Toronto and Vancouver, it does little for ours.
"We don't have a problem with chop shops. Our problem is kids stealing vehicles, joyriding and using them as if they're a weapon," he said.
Katz was referencing the chaos that unfolded in the North End Monday night when a chronic auto thief -- at the time wanted by police on two arrest warrants -- struck and injured a police officer with a stolen SUV.
The 15-year-old is one of about 100 youths classified as a "Level 4" chronic car thief within the Winnipeg Auto Theft Suppression Strategy. About half of them are in custody -- the others are released into the community and subject to frequent checks by police and probation officers.
"When I was a kid, I used to play hide and go seek. (These kids) play steal a car and let's run over a police officer," he said.
"There comes a point in time where you've got to get real," Katz said.
Getting real, he said, means keeping these youths in custody and attempting to rehabilitate them while locked up, along with making changes to the Criminal Code, which can only be done by the federal government.
The problem is, Katz said, no Winnipeg MPs are coming forward with any ideas, or have even shown they understand what's happening.
"I don't care what political party wants to take credit -- just do something," he said.
james.turner@freepress.mb.ca |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nomad
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 2059
Location: British Saskatchalbertatoba
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 11:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
It's not like the Tories haven't yelled and screamed and tried to make changes to the YOA, but they've met plenty of resistance. For everyone who says we need to get tougher on youth crime, someone else responds that there's no proof it accomplishes anything.
How are all these cars getting stolen? Are people leaving them running, or leaving them with keys in them? Stealing a car isn't something simple, unless the owner makes it easy for the thief.
I've never had a car stolen from me, but I've had my plate stolen. I don't even know how many days I drove without a plate before I noticed it was missing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazzbro
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 509
|
| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nomad - MB has made it mandatory to install immobilizers on cars that don't have them factory installed. This has helped but I don't think it's been fully implemented yet. (No immobilizer - no car insurance).
And no, people aren't leaving their keys in the car. It seems like it's the popular thing to do with quite a number of kids in Wpg. And the laws (and sentences) ARE a major part of the problem. The kids just think it's a big joke. And I guess it is.
(Didn't they used to hang horse-thieves? Maybe something just a little less severe would actually be a deterrent). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phillippe
Sgt. at Arms
User is Offline
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 2426
Location: Westmount, Québec, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
Montréal used to be the carjacking capitol of North America, but it was highly dependent on where exactly you were. If you were in the West Island, or wealthier urban neighborhoods, you were safe. Montréal instituted greater patrols and carjackings have come down, as have violent crimes (although, there was a murder last night).
What the critics have been saying is partially correct: The correlation between higher punishment and crime have almost no correlation. Many of the anti-death penalty groups have aptly noted that the cost of a trial, and the years of incarceration are actually more expensive than simply housing a person for life, and yet, the states with the death penalty often have high incidents of crime than non-death penalty states.
I recommend forcing these kids into labour. Not just 100 hours of volunteer work, but physical labour. Making them clean the sides of roads, forcing them to work on farms, forcing them to do city work. All for free, with the cavaet that if they make an attempt to escape, they serve jail and double their work time. Serves the dual purpose of keeping kids out of jail and making them learn from their mistakes.
_________________
I run a student organization.. You can call me El Presidente. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazzbro
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 509
|
| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Tough to prove a causal relationship -
"states with the death penalty often have high incidents of crime than non-death penalty states"
or
"states with higher incidents of crime often have the death penalty as opposed to states with lower incidents of crime"
In any event - like Mayor Katz says - 'just do something'. The current approach isn't working here.
(PiP - I used to live at 2021 Atwater in the mid-80's - right across from the old Forum. Lived there for four months and my car was broken into twice in the underground parking. The car itself was never stolen though. At least once it happened the night of a metal concert at the forum!) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phillippe
Sgt. at Arms
User is Offline
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 2426
Location: Westmount, Québec, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
Jazz,
2021 is a nice building, I know it well-- I walk by every day and will walk by there in a couple of minutes to go home. That part of the city is near Tupper Park which used to be the heroin and crack mecca of Montréal. Once the Forum became an AMC theater, the police stepped up the patrols of the area, and the park was cleaned out. Tupper Park is where the nightbuses meet up for the runs to St. Anne de Bellevue and LaSalle. That's all fine and dandy, but people were getting attacked, nurses felt unsafe leaving the Montreal Children's. The MUC Police have done a great job of cleaning the area up, and making sure that at night, the area stays clean. A lot of the old sleazy places on Ste Catherines have been closed down in the last 2-3 months, and are being replaced with new more family oriented venues.
And, it's not that hard to prove the relationship.
States With Death Penalty:
Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Idaho
Indiana
Illinois
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maryland
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Hampshire
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
Oregon
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Texas
Utah
Virginia
Washington
Wyoming
(note: New Hampshire has not executes anyone since 1939)
2007 Most Dangerous States
Nevada (Yes to Death)
New Mexico (Yes to Death)
Arizona (Yes to death)
Maryland (Yes to Death)
Tennessee (Yes to Death)
South Carolina (Yes to Death)
Alaska (No to Death)
Florida (Yes to Death)
California (Yes to death)
Louisiana (Yes to Death)
Michigan (No to death)
Texas (Yes to Death)
Arkansas (Yes to Death)
Washington (Yes to Death)
Oklahoma (Yes to Death)
North Carolina (Yes to Death)
Alabama (Yes to Death)
Delaware (Yes to Death)
Missouri (Yes to Death)
Georgia (Yes to Death)
http://www.morganquitno.com/dang07.htm
Of the Top 20 Most dangerous states, all but 2 have the death penalty.
The states that follow Number 20, Colorado, Ohio, Mississippi, Indiana, Pennsylvania, all have it as well.
This goes to show that there is no real correlation between the Death penalty and deterrence as well as rates of crime. The cost of a Capital Punishment trial costs into the millions in some states, making it not only cost inefficient, but also politically dicey. Let's face it, some states have executed innocent people. What's the point?
_________________
I run a student organization.. You can call me El Presidente. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazzbro
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 509
|
| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 11:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
1. I do NOT support the death penalty. (Consistent with my views on abortion, I believe killing people is generally wrong.)
2. I didn't say there isn't a correlation or relationship - there obviously is. I said it's tough to prove a causal relationship. You'd have to look at crime rates both before and after capital punishment was implemented or removed. Even then - well, the world keeps on spinning. All other things are NEVER equal.
3. A dead murderer can't murder again. Statistically this has been proven. 
(Cool on the Montreal stuff and slow cleaning up of Ste. Catherine.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phillippe
Sgt. at Arms
User is Offline
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 2426
Location: Westmount, Québec, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Depending on when you were last here, you might be surprised by the changes, Jazz. There used to be a huge strip-club on the corner of St.Laurent and Ste. Catherine, it was a 3 floor club with a girl dancing in the window. It's closed and the building has been torn down. They also raided a bunch of stores on St. Laurent near Chinatown and have shut them down, too. A number of the strip-clubs downtown near Super Sexe are gone, and have been turned into burger joints or T-shirt stores. Montréal used to be one of those cities where people went for the illicit nightlife, but it's slowly changing. The city is geared towards families now, with a lot of more family oriented stores opening. It's very odd, to be sure.
_________________
I run a student organization.. You can call me El Presidente. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
marginallymanic
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 3767
|
| Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Do you have bait cars in Manitoba?
When it was introduced in BC, there was a 35% drop in car thefts within one year.
ICBC runs the programme in BC, they set up a really popular car in a high theft area. fill it full of valuable toys, and wait for it to be stolen. The vehicle has GPS, and the engine can be killed, and the doors locked remotely.
Surrey used to be called the car theft capital of Canada, it isn't any more.
_________________
"An it harm none, do what ye will"
"I'm straight, but I'm not narrow" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazzbro
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 509
|
| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
MM -
Manitoba shelves bait-car program
Last Updated: Wednesday, October 3, 2007 | 8:55 AM CT
CBC News
Manitoba's bait-car program, once touted as sure-fire way to nab auto thieves red-handed, has been quietly cancelled.
Justice Minister Dave Chomiak confirmed during question period at the legislature Tuesday that Manitoba police are no longer using the six-year-old bait-car program.
Bait cars appeared to be tempting targets to car thieves — often-stolen models, parked in high-theft areas — but they were equipped with devices that allowed police to track and disable them, as well as video and audio recording devices.
The program was a victim of Manitoba's cold winters and a lack of personnel, Chomiak said Tuesday.
"There was a bait-car initiative in Manitoba, Mr. Speaker, that didn't prove effective because of weather conditions and because of the fact that it was labour-intensive," Chomiak said.
The batteries used in the technology couldn't stand up to Winnipeg winters, Chomiak explained, and Winnipeg police didn't have officers available on the ground to respond when the bait cars were stolen.
In addition, Chomiak said, Manitoba's car thieves differ from those in B.C., where the program has been credited with a 35 per cent reduction in theft.
Thieves on the West Coast are often professionals reselling the cars for profit, while most of Manitoba's thieves are youth out for a joyride, Chomiak said.
Instead of the bait-car program, police, Manitoba Public Insurance and justice officials in Manitoba have put their efforts into an auto-theft suppression strategy that identifies the worst repeat car thieves and subjects them to intensive monitoring.
"In Vancouver, the bait-car program, which cost $5 million, resulted in 30 arrests … in 2006. Our auto-theft suppression program has resulted in 964 auto-theft arrests and 3,417 criminal charges for the same period of time for the City of Winnipeg," Chomiak said.
Winnipeg has long been known as Canada's car-theft capital.
The province's latest large-scale initiative to combat the problem requires owners of vehicles among about 200 models considered at the highest risk of theft to install electronic ignition immobilizers if the owners live in or commute to Winnipeg.
Without an approved immobilizer, vehicle owners will not be able to renew their registration and insurance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nomad
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 2059
Location: British Saskatchalbertatoba
|
| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Gawd, bureaucracy run amok. If that's what public insurance gets you, then I want no part of it. How much does an immobilizer cost and why should I have to buy one just because crooks like my car? I bet one of those steering wheel club things costs a lot less than some electronic immobilizer.
Sure sounds like the victims are being financially punished for the crimes they didn't commit. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazzbro
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 509
|
| Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The provincial gov't offered a pretty sweet deal on the immobilizers but you still had to pay something - I forget what - for them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazzbro
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 509
|
| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Manitoba girl, 14, rolled vehicle packed with younger kids: RCMP
Last Updated: Tuesday, May 6, 2008 | 1:24 PM CT Comments4Recommend19
CBC News
A 14-year-old girl is likely to face charges after she allegedly took five younger children for a joyride in a stolen car, the RCMP said Tuesday.
Officials on the Long Plain First Nation, near Portage la Prairie, Man., say the girl stole the keys to her grandmother's car and went for a ride after loading the vehicle with five younger children, the youngest a one-year-old boy.
The vehicle rolled at around 8 p.m., resulting in all six children being sent to hospital. None of their injuries was life threatening, RCMP said.
"This is definitely an unfortunate incident, because other children, younger children … were in the vehicle. Definitely kids need to be reminded that vehicles are off-limits until you are prepared and ready to drive them according to the law," said RCMP spokeswoman Sgt. Line Karpish.
"Fourteen years old is a bit too young to be behind the wheel of a vehicle — certainly with that many children, or any children at all."
Karpish said investigators don't believe alcohol was involved. She expects charges will be laid against the young driver. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
marginallymanic
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 3767
|
| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Why is it that Manitoba has such a huge native problem Jazz?
Other provinces have high native populations, and don't have it, at least to the same degree.....seems to be just Man and Sask.
_________________
"An it harm none, do what ye will"
"I'm straight, but I'm not narrow" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazzbro
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 509
|
| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Good question. I think a few things but I'm certainly no expert -
- we're not anywhere close to being a 'wealthy' province. We're not super poor but not wealthy either. Now I'm not a believer that hand-outs are the solution to native issues, but I AM a believer that lack of opportunity in terms of industry and jobs IS part of the solution.
- lots of remote bands. Problems on the reserves with isolation, lack of meaning, lack of leadership, etc.
- when individuals come from the remote reserves to Winnipeg they become lost fairly easily. Again - simple lack of meaning and cultural context I'd say. - there is increasing gang activity recruiting the kids as well.
- I think we do actually have a larger native population than most other provinces and it is growing faster than the rest of the population
I think far better people than me have tried to figure this out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2 Next
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
| |
|