 |
| The Political Pub
News, Politics and General Discussion |
 |
|
| Author |
Message |
marginallymanic
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4070
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: 'transfer' oil wealt |
|
|
Green Shift will 'transfer' oil wealth, boasts Ont. MP
Carbon tax would tap Alberta resources to fund Liberal social programs
Jason Fekete
Calgary Herald; Canwest News Service
Saturday, July 12, 2008
CALGARY - An Ontario Liberal MP said Friday his party's Green Shift carbon-tax proposal will raid Alberta's energy riches and transfer wealth "from rich to poor, from the oilpatch to the rest of the country."
Ken Boshcoff, MP for Thunder Bay-Rainy River, rekindled memories of the controversial national energy program when he stated on a blog post that the Grits' Green Shift program will inflict financial pain on Alberta and its oil and gas industry.
The carbon-tax proposal -- which is being sold to Canadians as an environmental initiative, first and foremost -- would slap a levy on greenhouse gas emissions in Canada and return the roughly $15 billion in annual revenues through a series of cuts to income and corporate tax.
Failing to say much about any environmental benefits of the plan, Boshcoff proudly proclaimed on a political news blog that the Green Shift is the "most aggressive anti-poverty program in 40 years," which will target wealthy provinces -- particularly Alberta.
"The shift will transfer wealth from rich to poor, from the oilpatch to the rest of the country, and from the coffers of big business to the pockets of low-income Canadians," he said in a post on NetNewsledger.com.
The MP explains in his post that the $15 billion in revenues will be used to pay for Liberal party social policies, including $9 billion in tax cuts for low-income earners and $2.9 billion for a universal child tax benefit.
In an interview Friday, Boshcoff said he should have been more responsible with his words, but never viewed the Green Shift carbon tax as having a negative impact on any part of the country.
"Clearly, I feel it would be an expansion of prosperity nationwide. Everybody wants to share in Alberta's good fortune," he said. "As the (economic) tide rises, all ships should sail higher."
Calgary Southeast MP Jason Kenney, the federal Conservative pit bull on the Green Shift, said Boshcoff's comments reinforce what the government has argued for weeks -- the carbon-tax plan amounts to divisive politics trying to pit Alberta against other parts of Canada.
"It reveals the real plan here, which is a massive new tax in order to finance increased social spending," Kenney said. "When you scratch below the surface, what you see here is a discredited, old, beggar-thy-neighbour, class-warfare politics."
The latest round of Tory ammunition fell just days after Liberal Leader Stephane Dion toured Calgary and Edmonton in an effort to pitch his carbon-tax proposal. Dion went out of his way to sell the policy as fiscally smart, environmentally responsible and an attractive proposal for many in Alberta. The plan is nothing like the Trudeau government's NEP of the 1980s, he insisted, a program that crippled the Alberta economy at a time when oil prices crashed.
Meanwhile, Dion's carbon-tax plan doesn't seem to be pushing Canadians in either direction, suggests a new poll for Canwest News Service and Global National. Of those who answered the Ipsos Reid survey of 1,002 Canadians, a slim majority, 52 per cent, said they either strongly or somewhat agree with Dion's approach. In contrast, 42 per cent said they strongly or somewhat oppose the plan.
© The Edmonton Journal 2008
_________________
"An it harm none, do what ye will"
"I'm straight, but I'm not narrow" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phillippe
Sgt. at Arms
User is Offline
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 2495
Location: Westmount, Québec, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
I posted something about this on the other board. In reality, Boshcoff's words have invariably hurt the Liberals but aided the Conservatives. This was a tactical mistake and now Kenney has more to go into Parliament with. This isn't going to play well.
_________________
I run a student organization.. You can call me El Presidente. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
marginallymanic
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4070
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Other board?
_________________
"An it harm none, do what ye will"
"I'm straight, but I'm not narrow" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phillippe
Sgt. at Arms
User is Offline
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 2495
Location: Westmount, Québec, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
CP&I. They are sure this is an Eastern conspiracy to control the West.
_________________
I run a student organization.. You can call me El Presidente. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
marginallymanic
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4070
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
I didn't know that stillexisted
_________________
"An it harm none, do what ye will"
"I'm straight, but I'm not narrow" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nomad
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 2097
Location: British Saskatchalbertatoba
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Newfoundland and Nova Scotia are both scoring huge with offshore oil. Saskatchewan is finally seeing some investment. But it's Alberta's wealth that people want. Will the Liberals be calling for Atlantic Canada to share the wealth? I strongly doubt it.
Read comments to related stories at the G&M and invariably, it turns into Alberta-bashing.
Why is Alberta such a focus for so much envy and outright hatred from so many in the east? I just don't get what it is that we've done to piss off so many lefties. Other than to refuse to conform to them, I guess. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phillippe
Sgt. at Arms
User is Offline
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 2495
Location: Westmount, Québec, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Nomad,
Honestly, I have a feeling that people who "Alberta Bash" are a small group of people who troll internet sites, just as those on CP&I do. The ONLY person I ever heard who bashed Alberta was a guy from PEI who had never been there, and had in fact, never been West of Toronto. The fact that thousands upon thousands of Easterners move to Alberta, BC, Sask and Ontario to escape the shitty economic climate in the Maritimes/Québec are testimony, to me at least, that it's jealousy. There's a Trudeau quote that I've always liked and it goes:
"Masters in our own house we must be, but our house is the whole of Canada."
It was a comment in response to Jean Lesage, but I like it because it's true. The problem is we've never really realized that dream. Too many parts of Canada are willing to sit by and take from others than building their part of the house. Québec is notorious at this. Don't let people who post on the G&M give you a sense that all Easterners are like that. I mean hell, I can't count anyone in Québec that I know who Western bashes..... even my separatist friends.
_________________
I run a student organization.. You can call me El Presidente. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Menehune
Sgt. at Arms
User is Offline
Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 2508
Location: The Real South
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Anybody that habored the illusion that the Liberals were a national party can abandon that now. Oil is a boom bust industry and the price can and does go both ways. I remember the 70's when everyone thought oil was going to go up forever. Our silly politicians at the time created the NEP with that assumption in mind. Pitting one region against the other for political gain is beneath contempt. One thing I will say for Harper is that he hasn't done that, particuilarly with his Quebec policy.
_________________
18-1...Looks good on them!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Phillippe
Sgt. at Arms
User is Offline
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 2495
Location: Westmount, Québec, Canada
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Harper's Québec policy has given us the platform to promote and protect what people have been afraid of losing -- the French language. He's therefore given them the necessary provincial tools, but has forced Québec back onto the mainstage as an active participant. That's something that has irk the Bloc and PQ terribly.
_________________
I run a student organization.. You can call me El Presidente. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
marginallymanic
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 09 Mar 2005
Posts: 4070
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
As you read more of "green shift", you begin to realise that, intentionally or not, the effect will be to redistribute resource income, whether it be from Alberta or Newfoundland. I do however accept that this idiot is obviously getting off on the idea that redistributing Alberta's income would just be poetic justice as far as he is concerned, and I trust that it will bring him, and the whole policy, into the limelight for some more discussion.
Revenue neutral it may be, but for Canada, not for everyone. Some will gain, including some Albertans, and some will lose, including some Albertans. The big effort seems to be to redirect income to low income people with children, the working poor and seniors.
That may or may not be good public policy, but that is what the debate should be about.
_________________
"An it harm none, do what ye will"
"I'm straight, but I'm not narrow" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
buddhakisa
Sgt. at Arms
User is Offline
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 1279
Location: Morontario
|
| Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think it was Jonathan Kay who argued the only Green Shaft (this is not a typo, as I, unlike the lying sack of shit liberals, respect there is a company that has incorporated the name Green Shift) that is required is to tax at the retail level. You buy gas, or oil you pay more in taxes. The less you buy, the less you pay. Electrical rates can be made to reflect the carbon emissions of coal fired plants. The concept of revenue neutral is a shower of shit, but if required, another tax cut can be offered low income families to make it neutral for them. How the lame ass lying sack of shit liberals are even close to the conservatives in the polls is another bit of evidence that points to the stupidity of morontario voters. I will of course defend to the death their right to be morons, but thats because us baby killing neo-cons are funny that way, 
-SM-
_________________
" Tell 'em were coming....and hell is coming with us ! "
Kurt Russell as Wyatt Earp in Tombstone |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
YellowDuck
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 676
Location: Ontario. Sorry....
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It has been my observation that "the East's obsession with Alberta" is a myth, but that "Alberta's obsession with the East's obsession with Alberta" truly exists.
There is a lot more in the Calgary newspapers about "how the ROC wants our oil revenues" than there is in all of the ROC's press about anything to do with Alberta at all. We see the occasional story about how expensive real estate is in Fort McMurray or how it's impossible to get any Albertans to work at Starbucks anymore, and we shrug and go "hmm...that's interesting".
But when there will be some panel discussion on the CBC about Alberta's economy, and invariably there is some shrill journalist from Calgary yapping on about how the ROC is jealous of Alberta, and is plotting to steal all of the money.
They need to learn to just enjoy being rich (while it lasts), and not worry so much about the rest of us. We could care less. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jazzbro
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 589
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| YellowDuck wrote: |
| It has been my observation that "the East's obsession with Alberta" is a myth, but that "Alberta's obsession with the East's obsession with Alberta" truly exists..... |
I agree. Ontario/Ottawa just wants a bigger slice of their money.
Meanwhile when there is a power a thousand miles away (as Ottawa is to Alberta) constantly wanting in your wallet and to spend it on irrelevant shit like bilingualism, Via rail, the CBC - not to get into all the other l(L)iberal social engineering projects, and when Quebec and Ontario voters are pandered to while western ones are not, it would make sense that Ontario would bother Alberta more than Alberta bothers Ontario. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Shibumi
Sgt. at Arms
User is Offline
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 579
Location: Official greeter in the Digger
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"The shift will transfer wealth from rich to poor, from the oilpatch to the rest of the country, and from the coffers of big business to the pockets of low-income Canadians," he said in a post on NetNewsledger.com.
The MP explains in his post that the $15 billion in revenues will be used to pay for Liberal party social policies, including $9 billion in tax cuts for low-income earners and $2.9 billion for a universal child tax benefit."
"We could care less."
Yep, it sure looks that way.
_________________
Strangers have the best candy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Nomad
Cabinet Minister
User is Offline
Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 2097
Location: British Saskatchalbertatoba
|
| Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In the past week, Steffie DeYawn comes to Calgary and tells Alberta that it's going to be to our advantage to give up billions of dollars. Two Liberal MPs make public statements about how taking money from Alberta is a good thing.
Read the associated stories at the G&M Ducky, then read some of the reader comments. Then come back and tell me it's all just in our imagination.
As to the panel discussions on CBC, well... Let's just say I didn't see them and leave it at that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2 Next
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
| |
|