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Largs
Site Admin
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Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Posts: 2239
Location: Ontario
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:53 am Post subject: Dion's Carbon Tax |
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I found this poll posted on Bourque interesting, seeing as how Dion is intending to give us a carbon tax if elected. Unscientific I know but interesting at least.
Would Dion's Carbon Tax Save The Planet ?
Yes, we Canadians can save the world (170) 12%
No, he's crazy as a bed bug (1141) 83%
I don't know, tough call (61) 4%
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Phillippe
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Location: Westmount, Québec, Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: |
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What's bothered me for a while now is that a Carbon tax doesn't really change people's habits. I lived with a couple of enviro-freaks for a year and it was staggering-- they would buy thousands of sheets of paper to hand out, would leave lights on in the apartment all the time. They'd watch a Suzuki special on CBC while their computers and lights and stereos were on in the other room. I was baffled. As the cheap-labour conservative, I kept my lights off, and used very little power.
If people don't change their habits then this tax is just another money grab.
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jazzbro
Cabinet Minister
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:45 am Post subject: |
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I initially disliked this tax idea for the same reasons - it won't have much if any impact on consumption and, probably more importantly, it certainly will end up a tax grab.
But if we could be sure it wouldn't increase taxes overall I may warm up to it (heh).
If you take the perspective that you want to tax the things you don't want in society and leave things you DO want untaxed it makes sense if that's where our collective values are at.
And if you take the perspective that voluntary taxes are better than compulsory taxes it could be good too.
So, for example, if income taxes were reduced across the board to an equal amount, why not? We WANT people to have high incomes don't we? Why tax them? Meanwhile petroleum is a non-renewable resource and once it's gone it's gone. (I don't much buy into the global warming fiasco but I DO recognize that preserving non-renewable resources makes sustainability sense).
So if society wants to reduce gasoline consumption maybe it's a good thing. You can consume as much as you are willing to pay for. Sounds okay to me.
Will it result in lower consumption? There's no evidence that tripling gas prices in the last few years has, so I sincerely doubt it. But so what?
Of course it WILL amount to an additional tax grab which remains a good reason not to do it. |
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jazzbro
Cabinet Minister
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Meanwhile, these polls are getting seriously ridiculous.
"Do you believe Denmark can save the world through a Carbon Tax?" Uh, yeah - sure. |
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Monty Burns
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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So, if the plan is to jack up "carbon taxes" and reduce other taxes, i.e. income taxes or whatever:
1) what guarantee do I have that it will be "revenue neutral" for me personally, as opposed to them jacking up what I pay for gas, but directing the offsetting tax decreases to Someone Else?
2) If the carbon tax works and consumption is reduced, won't that mean less tax revenue for the government that will have to be made up elsewhere?
And if it doesn't work so that it exists into perpetuity, i.e. like booze or tobacco taxes, then doesn't that make it just another moralistic sin tax?
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jazzbro
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Those who tout the proposed tax would say if fuel consumption went down and tax rates had to rise it would be worth it - it would be a sign that the tax was having its desired effect. At worst - in theory - income tax rates would rise to their current rates as carbon tax revenues declined to zero.
And what's wrong with another moralistic sin tax? Viewed a certain way, it's no different than income tax, only we want people to have/keep more of their income don't we? If everyone agrees that tax has to come from somewhere, why tax income rather than gasoline, etc.?
The morality comes in - in my view - in that there's no way any government would actually keep its vow to keep it revenue-neutral. That's like a leopard vowing not to have spots.
(And we know what the Liberals' particular record on keeping its tax promises is...) |
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marginallymanic
Cabinet Minister
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:45 am Post subject: |
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(And we know what the Liberals' particular record on keeping its tax promises is...)..........pretty good since the mid 90's
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jazzbro
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| Any views on the actual topic MM? |
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marginallymanic
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: |
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None...the question was so stupid. Of course a Canadian carbon tax won't save the planet.
Bourque was playing games
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marginallymanic
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jazzbro
Cabinet Minister
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| marginallymanic wrote: |
None...the question was so stupid. Of course a Canadian carbon tax won't save the planet.
Bourque was playing games |
LOL. Of course it was. But I thought Phillippe turned it into a serious thread on the real topic of whether or not a carbon tax taking the place of income taxes is a good idea. I guess not. |
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