THE WORST AND THE SADDEST DAY IN OUR LIFE WITH DEGUS!!
those WHO HAVE MAYBE READING ABOUT BETI, LILI AND OUR 6 BABIES, WHO WILL TOMORROW BE 3 WEEKS OLD, WILL MAYBE UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION AND DISASTER, WHICH HAPPENED TODAY. ME AND MY FRIEND DON'T UNDERSTAND IT SO PLEASE ANYONE, PLEASE TRY TO HELP US OR ADVICE US, OR ANYTHING.
AFTER WE GOT BETI WE READ AND LEARN EVERYTHING WE FOUND ABOUT DEGUS, BUT THIS I CAN NOT FIND. WHAT IS THE ANSWER OF THAT BEHAVIOR?????? WHY?????
ALL PEOPLE SAY DEGUS ARE KIND, SOCIAL, NON VIOLENT ANIMALS, AFTER TODAY I BELIEVE THEY ARE JUST ANIMALS, WITH THEIR INSTINCT FROM THE NATURE AND PEOPLE'S GUILT IS THEY TOOK IT FROM THE WILD AND TRY TO MAKE THEM HOME PETS. DON'T GET ME WRONG, I AM IN SHOCK, I LOVE THEM, BUT HOW CAN WE EXPLAIN THIS PARTICULARLY BEHAVIOR?????
WE HAVE SAVED BETI 5 MONTHS AGO AT THE AGE OF 3 MONTHS FROM THE PET SHOP, AFTER FOUNDING LILI, HIS MALE FOR HIM, THEY GET ALONG FINE, KISS, AND FIGHT A LITTLE, BUT NOT FOR FOOD, JUST WHEN HE WANTED TO MATE. AND 6 DAYS AFTER THE FIRST MATE CALL, SHE BECOME A MOTHER OF SIX AMAZING BEAUTIES.
WE SEPARATED HIM FOR 3 DAYS, LIKE SAID, AND HE GOT ALONG WELL WITH BABIES AND LILI, ALL THOUGH HE INBREED HER THE SECOND DAY.
BUT TODAY - THANK GOD, WE WERE AWAY FOR JUST 5 AND 1/2 HOUR, WE FOUND LILI ALL IN BLOOD.. BETI WAS LAYING ON HER AND YELLING LIKE CRAZY, BUT SHE WAS PUSHING HIM AWAY AND AWAY..AND WATCHED SO SADLY IN OUR EYES. THAN WE KNEW, STILL COMING OUT WITH EXCUSES FOR BETI, AGAIN RESEARCHING THE HOLE CAGE , BUT LILI COULD NOWHERE HURT HERSELF LIKE THAT. HE DID IT. OUR BETI, OUR POOR LITTLE ..SORRY I DON'T EVEN NOW, WHEN WE HARDLY REMOVED HIM INTO ANOTHER CAGE, CAN'T BELIEVE IT.
OK......LILI AS SOON WE GOT HIM OUT, STARTED TO LICK HER WOUND, STAND UP AND WENT TO THE WATER AND TO THE PUPPIES. WHEN SHE DRANK WE SAW ANOTHER WOUND, NOT AS BIG. SHE IS BITTEN AND IT IS OBVIOUSLY THEY BITE TO LEAD A CAT AND A DOG LIFE. ANOTHER COUPLE HOURS AND WHO KNOWS-TILL DEATH???? YESTERDAY THEY WERE LOUD, BUT ALWAYS WHEN SHE BREEDING, HE BOTHER HER..
IN THE END, CAN SOMEONE TELL ME IS THIS JUST NORMAL???? I DON'T THINK SO. I HEARD ABOUT MALES FIGHTING, BITING FOR PREDOMINATE, BUT THIS.
THE VET SAID IT IS SAFER NOT TO TAKE LILI TO HIM, BECAUSE OF THE SHOCK, AND SHE IS STILL BREADING AND IS PREGNANT AGAIN. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT HER, I HOPE SHE WILL SURVIVE.........................................IF WE WERE OUT LONGER????
I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO. AND BETI? HE IS ...
TO HIS FEMALE, MOTHER OF PRESENT AND FUTURE BABIES, ....WHAT AND HOW?? ONE WOUND, BUT TWO, AND HER 2 NOSE FUR ARE PULL AWAY WITH MEAT?WE DO NOT BLAME BETI. IS IT HIS INSTINCT FOR MATING? BAD GENS????? BUT HE CAN NOT BE WITH HIS FAMILY ANYMORE? NEVER??????
PLEASE - HAVE MERCY- LILI SEEMS TO DO "WELL" -SHE EATS HAY, WE ARE SITTING IN FRONT OF THEIR CAGE, PUPPIES ARE RUNNING, ALL ARE WELL, WE HAVEN'T TOUCHED THEM BECAUSE OF BRAIN DAMAGES I HAVE READ, BECAUSE THEY AREN'T OLD ENOUGH, PLEASE TELL ME, WHAT WAS THIS? TEARS????? LOVELY KIDS? THEY ARE OUR FAMILLLLY
I didn't reply cos I didn't think you'd like what I had to say. My first thought was the poor girl is probably exhausted from being constantly mated and having to give birth to all those babies. Would you like being made pregnant 5 days after you gave birth? I'm not surprised they are fighting I've never known a single sex group to cause each other injury (unless kept in appalling conditions) so I can only assume this mating situation is the cause.
My advice? Keep them separate. Put any female babies in with Mum and male babies in with Dad (once they are weaned and with careful intros). The world doesn't need any more poorly bred degus.
How old are the babies now? I've never heard that handling them can cause brain damage and I personally believe you should handle them quite soon after birth so they get used to people. If they are about a week or more then I would be inclined to put Mum and babies in a pet carrier together and get her wounds checked by a vet in case.
Your newborn degu pups need a lot of care in their first weeks of life. You must be very careful not to stress the pups during this time, as early adverse emotional experience can alter the development of the pup's brains13, 110, 149. This can cause physiological and cognitive deficits in later life18 which are irreversible, particularly if separated from the mother for any length of time110, 149. The first three weeks are critical to the degu's normal development18. During this time handling should be MINIMISED to avoid stress18. After this time, research has shown that handling the pups but NOT removing them from their mother does not have severe detrimental effects31. However continual handling at a young age has been shown to alter juvenile behaviour31. Research has shown that lactation and child rearing is also highly stressful to the mother37, so care should be taken not to cause her undue disruption. This stress is related to high production, energy utilisation and body mass37.Your newborn degu pups need a lot of care in their first weeks of life. You must be very careful not to stress the pups during this time, as early adverse emotional experience can alter the development of the pup's brains13, 110, 149. This can cause physiological and cognitive deficits in later life18 which are irreversible, particularly if separated from the mother for any length of time110, 149. The first three weeks are critical to the degu's normal development18. During this time handling should be MINIMISED to avoid stress18. After this time, research has shown that handling the pups but NOT removing them from their mother does not have severe detrimental effects31. However continual handling at a young age has been shown to alter juvenile behaviour31. Research has shown that lactation and child rearing is also highly stressful to the mother37, so care should be taken not to cause her undue disruption. This stress is related to high production, energy utilisation and body mass37.
You must never remove newborn pups from their mother for any period of time. The pups need to hear their mother's voice as this soothes them and prevents developmental dammage13, 31, whilst stimulating physical and mental development31. Similar to human babies, pups learn to recognise and respond to their mother's call within the first days of life18. Removing pups from their mother is also a traumatic emotional experience for them18, 110 which can damage the developing limbic system18 in the brain.
Do you think we touched them? We were just observers, and admires.
And for all you didn't want to written - can't you see or understand the pain? Could you imagine that? What lili is going throug? My question was is this behaviour normal and what is reasons?
Be sure, come to my home in what appalling conditions they were living, and how now
-don't be patronage and don't underestimate us-we have questions and blood in our soul
I'm aware of that site and in all honesty I'm dubious about some of the things written on it. I won't claim to be a degu expert but I look after a lot of other rodents and in all species handling the babies from a young age (as long as the mother is comfortable with you doing so) is advantagious. The idea that doing so causes brain damage seems a bit daft to me.
Quote:
Do you think we touched them? We were just observers, and admires.
And for all you didn't want to written - can't you see or understand the pain? Could you imagine that? What lili is going throug? My question was is this behaviour normal and what is reasons?
Be sure, come to my home in what appalling conditions they were living, and how now
-don't be patronage and don't underestimate us-we have questions and blood in our soul
I don't entirely understand what you have written I'm afraid. I do totally understand your pain and concern for your degus, I just said that I think the cause is leaving an entire male and female in together to breed constantly. It seems inevitable to me that she will get fed up eventually (you say as much yourself in other posts) and that a fight will break out. I'm not suggesting that your degus are living in appalling conditions, I'm sure they're not. I was just saying that's the only circumstances I have seen fighting amongst same sex groups which is why I think your degus would be better kept in same sex groups.
Sorry maybe I was overreacted. But we are going mad of worries. Do you think Beti behave like that because of the life in that store??
We wanted one litter, so we separated them for 3 days. Everyone says, that after that time it is safe for another one pregnancy. We would put Beti with sons and leave Lili with daughters, but unfortunately he did it immediately and after yesterday, I don't know nothing anymore.
Lili is acting normal, we spend the night by her. Her wounds are not so scary anymore, but Beti is confused..
We are so afraid, that after another two weeks, he won't accept sons, and that such cruel fights will continue. What do you think?
I'm sorry to hear of your problems Just got back from my holidays so haven't been around. It must have been awful to find them like that. I agree i would seperate them and once old enough and weaned keep the girls with mum and the boys if you intend to keep any with dad. How is Lilli now? _________________
Hello Kirsti!
I'm glad you are back. I hope you have great time. Are degus angry because you weren't around?
Our family: Beti was away for 3 days and than we left both out, to see how they get along. First day he was so scared of Lili and she attacked him. The second day we were all day with them and Lili went mad for Beti's cage, so they were in together, she licked him, and everything.. And Beti went in her cage and wellcome the babies.. So he is now back, just for few days only, then he will be with sons, 'cause they don't sucle more. But the sad part is Lili is definitely pregnant again, we observe them - that is our only job these days So the little one must go away in new home, but it is so hard to find good one.
Scary movie here at us, joy with babies and a lot of more.
I had a great time thankyou for asking The degus were all happy to see me and to see if i came bearing gifts which i did and they all had a raisin each
I think it will probably be for the best Beti living with his sons as it sounds like maybe he is a little too much for Lili, i'm sure once she is with the girls she will settle down a lot more. Glad to hear Lili is alright though, must have been a worrying time _________________
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I've never known a single sex group to cause each other injury (unless kept in appalling conditions) so I can only assume this mating situation is the cause.
So the little one must go away in new home, but it is so hard to find good one.
The degus were all happy to see me and to see if i came bearing gifts which i did and they all had a raisin each 
