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TattieBogle
Drookit
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Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Awwww Come on Anon, dont spoil my fun,  Im sure I could beat his hush money....... or can you not be tempted?! 
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Spry
Great Selkie o' Sule Skerry
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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I cannae afford to up the ante so I expect all will be revealed. The shame o' it!
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Anona.Mouse
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| Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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I'm afraid the word "temptation" is not in my vocabulary, TattieB.
However, I might be able to find a few other words, for the right price . . . |
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Anona.Mouse
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 4:21 am Post subject: Circling The Square |
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Well now! I've been doing a bit of digging. Some of which involved actually buying old maps, which unfortunately I'm not allowed to post here for you, or they'll send Big Asbo round to cut me into collops.
So, anyway . . . this is a section from a map I posted before, but with The Square placed more centrally, so that you can see what's going on round about. It's dated 1854.
The Square and its surroundings seem very open-plan here.
This next clip is from 1908 - half a century later. Penicuik has grown out of all recognition in the whole map, but this little bit still has that very recognisable High-Street-and-Square layout. Makes me wonder just how many years it's been like that.
It looks much more closed in now, with buildings encroaching from all sides. But the main road still goes through from top to bottom.
This next one is the piece de resistance, though. Like the others it's very small - and when I blew it up it lost all definition. So I'll give you an original size copy, just in case anybody reading this is a PhotoShop wizard.
This is dated only as "before 1800" - so even our Spry were nobbut a lad then.
The surprise here is that the area is much more enclosed in this earliest map. It still isn't exactly square in shape, but you can sort of see how it might have been, a bit earlier still. It would be interesting to wander round and make a note of which existing numbers fit where on the plan - and was our bit of guesswork right about where the missing ones have disappeared from?
There's certainly no main road travelling directly through on this map - the High Street seems to continue along West Street before turning southwards.
It occurs to me that The Square could once have been a fairly enclosed yard for stabling horses which came to the coaching inn at the High Street end.
Or even a barracks square - there must have been somebody taking charge of the French prisoners at Valleyfield - which isn't so very far away, after all. The prisoners might even been exercised there. But I digress.
I wish I had a bigger copy of this one, because it's very detailed. Must have another ferret around, and see if I can find anything more.
Unless anybody has found anything in their attics, sheds or tucker-bags of course. |
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Spry
Great Selkie o' Sule Skerry
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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These are great. As you say, there is no main road through the Square on the pre-1800 map and the Square deserves to be called a Square. I've got an old map somewhere that shows the road south as running roughly through where Croft Street is. I think the road might have been called Back o' Mill Lands (or was that the old name for West Street ---- cannae mind).
The paper mill was still fairly small then and the footpath (the Delft Brae) running down from the Valleyfield House side of the pend seemed to go down to allotments or gardens.
An extension north on the 1854 map shows the Foundry as being the last building in Penicuik (first coming from Edinburgh). I don't go THAT far back although I remember pre-Roadhouse when either that building or the one before it was the last building.
I'd better have another rake around for some old maps.
Very interesting stuff, Anona. Many thanks.
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Anona.Mouse
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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Ah-ha! I think this is a bigger copy.
I found it on an interesting page about the life of Alexander Cowan, which you can find here if you want.
No news about The Square though - it must have pre-dated Cowan I think.
The High Street. That queer dog-leg shape of it - why? One side is nice and straight and regular, the other is mad, and always has been in all the maps that I've seen. How long has it been like that - over 200 years, apparently - and why?
Answers on a postcard, usual address.
P.S. Looking at that bigger version, a couple of thoughts strike.
On the regular side of the High Street - which here is called The Main Street - the fourth building from the left seems to have a bow front. Is that what became Rosie's the Optician, before transmogrifying into a Travel Agent's and other things? The same building?
Towards the bottom left, there's a field circled by trees, which looks to be called Cornbank. Can anybody with younger eyes check that?
Last edited by Anona.Mouse on Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:31 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Big Davie
Drookit
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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That does say Cornbank Anona, i have seen that on an other map but i can't recall where. It was either on the NLS site old maps page or on the
old map that hangs above the fireplace in the old crown inn.
Now i have an excuse to go for a pint. |
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Spry
Great Selkie o' Sule Skerry
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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That's a good size but I still can't make out the letters of what you think might be 'Cornbank'. I've sharpened it in Photoshop but I still can't tell.
I've clicked on 'find here if you want' but all I get is the map.
Why does the High Street curve like that? Dunno. It was the village centre so maybe they held markets there?
Well spotted ---- the bow front of what I agree must be Rosie's. I believe the curved glass that was at least a hundred years old was smashed by a yob not all that long ago and has been replaced with flat glass.
At the bottom, you can see the tip of what is / was known as 'The Island' really a jutting-out piece of land formed where the Black Burn meets the Esk. There's a proper island if you follow the river round to the right. I wonder if that's still there?
The mill lade is clearly shown.
I could study these maps for ages but other things have got to be done!
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Spry
Great Selkie o' Sule Skerry
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Have an IrnBru for me when you're there, Davie!
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Anona.Mouse
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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Well, while Davie's having his pint and Spry is up to no good with the nearest burd, I shall fix that link.
Sorry, for some reason it's been using the same address for them both - possibly because the map is at the top of the page? Anyway, I'll see if I can sort it out.
P.S. Yes, that's sorted it - the link should have been to this page. Incidentally, that map was on the top of a different page - Alexander Cowan's portrait is at the top of this one - so I still don't know what happened!
Never mind. He seems to have been an interesting character, by all accounts. |
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Dingle McFarkle
Great Selkie o' Sule Skerry
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: |
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Is there any indication on these maps or eleswhere as to the original purpose of the shop that is now the Off Licence on the High Street?
There's something odd on the back wall of the building. It's a carving of an urn - could be a beacon or even just a terrine. I wondered if it had something to do with the shop's original purpose.
You can see it from the back of the Old Crown, but there's scaffolding in the way at present, so it's hard to see it clearly. |
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Anona.Mouse
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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It couldn't be a gas burner or lamp, could it?
I don't even know where the off-licence is exactly, but I read something about the Cowans providing gas to the town for many years.
| Quote: |
| Alexander Cowan's gardens at Valleyfield and Moray House were well known, and he was a regular contributor to Horticultural, Philosophical and Astronomical Societies, as well as to the Edinburgh Royal Infirmary. Like Walter Scott he took an interest in gas supply. The Valleyfield Mills were lit by gas from 1830, and Messrs Cowan supplied the village of Penicuik for over 30 years from 1845. On his death in 1859, Alexander left money for the common good of Penicuik people, from which the Cowan Institute (Town Hall) was later built and endowed with 5,000 (sadly vanished) books. |
I just wondered if the carving indicated something to do with the gas - you mentioned a beacon as a possibility. Or could it even be the shell which was Cowans' trademark? |
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Dingle McFarkle
Great Selkie o' Sule Skerry
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:46 am Post subject: |
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It's a shallow vessel with a distinct base and something radiating from the top. I suppose it could just be some sort of symbolic reference to gas, but it looks to me more like some religious symbol. |
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Anona.Mouse
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Well, that's possible - Cowan always supported religious bodies of various breeds.
I had another thought, though - that water system, also provided by the Cowan family, and which came down from the Pentlands. Could it be water "radiating" down into the vessel?
But we need a photie, so you'll just have to keep going to the pub until you can get one.
(You're allowed to sober up once your mission has been accomplished.) |
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Anona.Mouse
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| Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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Bearing in mind the proximity of the building in question to Valleyfield and its gardens - and the secretness of secret societies - and the fact that there's been an active Lodge or two in Penicuik since Adam delved and Eve span - I've been trying to get a picture of the badge of Penicuik Free Gardeners' Society, just to see if it could be that. Haven't done too well so far, though.
This is one image that came up:
and then there's a page about the Midlothian branches here, with this pic:
I loved the description of the festivities:
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| The lodge's participation in public life in Penicuik became one to the traditions of the town. Each year, usually in July, the lodge paraded through the main streets led by a costumed character, 'Old Adam', and a number of 'Virgins'. 'Buskits of floo'ers' were carried by some members - the best won a prize. Families of members played a part in the celebrations, joining in dancing on the green of Penicuik House and other related events. The day's festivities were always reported in the local press. |
This might be a clue to the carving, if there are any letters visible:
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| Free Gardeners based their creation story on Biblical references. Coded allusions to the mythology appear on many articles of regalia. It was coded because only 'initiates' were admitted to the 'correct' interpretations of the symbols. The letters PGHE are code for the four rivers (Pishon, Euphrates, Gihon and Hiddekel) that flow through the Garden of Eden. A further letter group, ANS, symbolises a word of recognition appropriate to each degree - Adam, Noah and Solomon. These letters are often accompanied by embroidered or gold braid depictions of Adam and Eve in Eden, Noah's Ark, doves and the rainbow after the Flood. |
- and, of course, if this suggestion is correct! If you can't see anything that looks like any of that, then I'm barking up the wrong tree again. But if those letters do appear, then maybe I'm not quite so mad.
Just found this - maybe not so far away, but not quite right. Sorry!
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Penicuik Silver Band, as we now know it, was founded in 1835 as a Reed Band when Sam Millar, a music teacher from Rosewell was engaged, and Tom Paterson was appointed as bandleader.
The first practice room was the old Free Gardeners' Lodge where the Emporium, part of the Co-operative Store, is now built. |
But, on the other hand . . . found some more at this place - including a rather suggestive little paragraph:
| Quote: |
| The Grand Lodge representing Free Gardeners throughout Scotland was based at the Oddfellows Hall in Bristo Place, Edinburgh, with The People's Bank next door. Penicuik members customarily took a large part in this national organisation. In Penicuik itself the Gardeners had premises in the High Street next to the Railway Tavern, and at the end of West Street by what's now the Arts Centre.. A big Centenary Walk was held in 1922. |
I've found a Penicuik apron, too - once belonged to Robert Stoddart of the Thistle Lodge of Free Gardeners, Penicuik:
Now while you all pick the bones out of that lot, I'm going to have a cup of tea. |
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