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Skyglider Thunder Falls User is Offline Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 719	Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:16 pm    Post subject: Cedar Fair stock plunges to $19.90 · Quote Over the past year Cedar Fair (FUN) unit shares have ranged as high as $29.97.  As recently as May 15, 2008, the price was $24.71.   Today FUN shares closed at $19.90.  It is down nearly 20% since May 15. Not saying there is a direct connection to Geauga Lake, but along with lower attendance in the northern parks to date (confirmed by CF press releases), high debt and a number of "interesting" decisions, there appears reason to be concerned about the health of this Ohio company. _________________ "It's a very special ride. We want to make sure it has a proper home." CF Spokesperson Robin Innes about the Big Dipper. Ohio and North America have few structures that rank as high as 12th oldest in the World.  Remember the Big Dipper.
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coasterdad Site Admin User is Offline Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 1565	Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:47 pm    Post subject: · Quote I think this is not as bad as its made out to be. After all July and August are coming I am sure attendance will pick up. The stock plummeting is only temporary as it will rebound soon.   Lets not mention the fact that this has never happened before in CP/CF history. They are getting what is coming to them! _________________ Greed is what caused GL's demise and that just makes me sick. Lets do what we can to rat out Kinzel - hes a snake. In the end the truth will come out and we will then see whos laughing at who.
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Catchthebrassring Double Loop User is Offline Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 232	Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:02 pm    Post subject: · Quote quotes.nasdaq.com/quote.dll?page=charting&mode=basics&intraday=off&timeframe=1y&charttype=ohlc&split s=off&earnings=off&movingaverage=None&lowerstudy=volume&comparison=off&index=&drilldown=off&symbol=F UN&selected=FUN No comment, I'll let the chart to all the talking. I don't want to be accused of taking something out of content and twisting it around. _________________ "Be ashamed to die until you have achieved some victory for humanity."  Horace Mann Geauga Lake will always remain in our hearts and memories. On June 17th & 18 2008 dick drove the final 2 nails into the coffin of our beloved Geauga Lake
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ScrewCrew88 Beaver Land Mine Ride User is Offline Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 38	Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:52 pm    Post subject: · Quote I have been watching the price of units lately and definitely there is a problem here.  I think any of us who have been around long enough to watch Cedar Fair grow and become the major company it is today know that the time is NOW for new leadership. I say this as someone who became aware of Dick Kinzel and started following the business side of the industry back in the 1980's.  I watched as Cedar Point turned into the world-class destination it has become as well as watching Cedar Fair begin to acquire parks across the country.  Dick has done a lot of good for both Cedar Fair and its share holders; I made out very well owning shares in the late 80's and early 90's.  I thank Dick and his management team for their service and the value that was returned to me for my investment. Today, I would not consider Cedar Fair to be a wise investment at all if I wanted to venture back into theme park stocks.  Simply put, times have changed and the world has moved on yet Cedar Fair is stuck back in the 1970's and 1980's in its operating mentality.  I won't bore everyone with a lengthy detailed listing of all the reasons to support this theory.  My fear is the company as-a-whole will turn into the disastrous equivalent of "Disney's California Adventure" and it will take a long time and a lot of financial resources for a new team of people to clean up all the bad decisions made.  Working with that theory I must say that the buck stops at the top, everything that Dick Kinzel worked so hard for and the results and achievements he should be credited for are quickly being tarnished by the decisions and mis-steps he has made over the past 4-5 years (and no, I am not even considering the Geauga Lake fiasco as part of this discussion).  Dick Kinzel is a decent, generous and caring human being and I wish him nothing but success.  Unfortunately I no longer believe he is the man who can make the decisions needed to make Cedar Fair achieve the same results and growth it has over the past 20 years. To compound the situation is knowing that Dick is surrounded by "yes men" and reports to a board of directors hand-picked by himself.  There is nobody willing to challenge any of the decisions being made on a truthful and meaningful level.  Frankly, that confounds me; what is there to fear by these people for speaking up if it is your JOB to be a leader in management?  The individuals who can make a difference are people like the COO, CFO, all the new Regional Directors, etc.  NOW is the time to take a few risks, LISTEN to what your line level and middle managers are giving you for feedback and try new things!  My reasoning for breaking the mold now is: the economy is horrible and will remain this way all year (lets just be honest and upfront about that!), Cedar Fair has HUGE debt to manage, attendance IS falling slowly year-to-year, employee moral is NOT what it once was or should be for people working in a FUN industry, and most importantly American's recreational habits are changing and this has the most drastic effect on the future of what Cedar Fair will be or do as a company. As I said before, I am entirely grateful to Dick Kinzel for his service, his sacrifices and everything he has accomplished at Cedar Fair.  I hope that in the last 3 years of his leadership at Cedar Fair he consciously will choose to break out of the mold or "box" he has created around himself and support his many, many talented employees by giving them the freedom and ability to guide the company into a new era.  That could truly be his legacy at the end of his career. Last edited by ScrewCrew88 on Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ffejie Splash Landing User is Offline Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 173	Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:48 pm    Post subject: · Quote boy  that graph  sure would make a fun ride lol!! it jusk keeps going down and down
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Ray P Riptide Run User is Offline Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 337	Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:06 pm    Post subject: · Quote I'm truly surprised.  Based on the reports here that Wildwater Kingdom was just packing them in on a daily basis, Canada's Wonderland having a booming season and that none of "us people" know what Cedar Point's true attendance is, I just can't see why CF's stock is plummeting.   Ray P.  (wondering where the Axis Of Evil and their pro-CF spin have been through all of this)
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sfwoaloopytech Beaver Land Mine Ride User is Offline Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 39	Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:20 pm    Post subject: · Quote Wednesday, March 10th, 2004: Six Flags Hotel. Kieran Burke: "Um, uh, i f**ked, blah blah blah....SFWoA is sold..." Dick Kinzel: "We're firing the animals. Most of you are losing your jobs, sucks to be you, blah blah blah...." CF stock closed that day at $35.71 -the highest it ever closed, and has dropped continuously since then. Go figure. _________________ Somewhere.... whales, dolphins, penguins, hotties in wetsuits, Kieran Burke, and George Millay ....are laughing at Cedar Fair.
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Dominator56 Tidal Wave Bay User is Offline Joined: 18 Jul 2007 Posts: 1167 Location: Akron, Ohio	Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:35 pm    Post subject: · Quote With the economy and all I'm not really all that suprised really. Although its a huge differance from last years totals. _________________ Geauga Lake I will miss you!
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amusementpark7 Splash Landing User is Offline Joined: 13 Apr 2008 Posts: 105	Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:28 am    Post subject: · Quote I don't know who you're referring to Ray, but if it's me, I have a heck of a lot better things to do than to sit on here and comment on something everday.  I do have a life, and really don't care all that much about what happens with amusement parks.  But here I am, and here comes my spinning of all of this. The economy sucks, especially in northern Ohio and Michigan.  Everyone knows that.  All stocks are "plunging," as that is the word of choice for the topic of this thread.  Look at the stock market.  It's looking very similar to Cedar Fair's right now.  Now that being said, Cedar Fair is not doing well at all right now.  I don't know why and none of you know why, but they aren't doing good.  From what I understand, Cedar Point's attendance is not good.  The worst it has ever been in its' over 125+ year history?  No.  But it's not good.  Why is attendance not good?  People don't want to spend money.  Many people have uncertainty with their jobs and are not willing to spend money today if they aren't sure whether or not they'll have a job tomorrow.  Obviously the prices of basic needs are going up, especially food and gas.  People don't have as much discretionary income anymore.  It's all being sucked up with needs.  People are investing less and less money.  My point is, we're in an economic lull right now.  Until we can pull ourselves out of it, many corporations will suffer.  Cedar Fair is no exception.   Now, if "you people" think that the troubles Cedar Fair is having right now is related to Geauga Lake in any way, I believe you are completely off base.  Cedar Fair owns over 15 properties.  Do you think many people in any of those markets, other than Cedar Point's market, has ever even heard of little Geauga Lake, let alone known it was owned by Cedar Fair, let alone know that the ride side is closed?  I don't think so.  Cedar Fair is much, much bigger than Geauga Lake.  I'm just a little confused as to how some may think that the difficulties a one billion dollar corporation is experiencing is somehow related to a small, "family-friendly" amusement park in Aurora, OH. Now in regards to Cedar Point...attendance has not been good.  It has been picking up pretty rapidly and they should have a decent year after July and August, and the ever-busy Halloweekends.  Now, let’s assume that “the people” on here claiming that this “is the worst attendance ever at the Point” and that Cedar Point’s attendance is down some 60,000 people, actually spoke with John Hildebrandt, and that 60,000 is the actual number.  How many people out of the 60,000 do you really think did not come to Cedar Point so far, and will not come at all through November 2, because the rides at Geauga Lake were closed by the company that owns Cedar Point?  Being the generous guy I am, I’d give you 1,000 people, even though I honestly have a hard time even fathoming that 1,000 regular ole’ people would not come to Cedar Point because an amusement park was closed.  That’s less that 0.5% of Cedar Point’s annual attendance.  So to say Geauga Lake is having a negative impact on Cedar Point’s attendance, in my opinion, is not very accurate.  Now did Dick Kinzel and Jack Falfas think that closing Geauga Lake would boost attendance at Cedar Point?  They probably did.  Were they wrong?  They most certainly were.  But I don’t think it’s fair or accurate to say that the closing of Geauga Lake is negatively impacting Cedar Point and especially not Cedar Fair. And in regards to that wonderfully written and researched article by WKYC…I don’t think there are going to be too many more days when Millennium Force’s line is a one half hour wait.  I was there last week (on a weekday) and the park was pretty busy.  One hour waits or longer for most major attractions.  (As a side note, I was amazed that with the outrageous food prices Cedar Point has, how many people were buying food.  People will just spend money once they get in the gates.  I can’t even imagine what a profit Cedar Point is making on F&B alone.)  And the last problem I have with the WKYC article is how they talk about hotels in Sandusky are hurting from the drop in Cedar Point attendance.  The WKYC reporter quoted someone for the Value Inn, I believe.  Well, with one drive past that property it’s not too hard to figure out why they’re not filling up.  But the majority of hotels and motels in Sandusky are having really good seasons so far.  Reservations and average rates are up substantially from last year.  Believe me, there are no shortage of tourists in Sandusky!  Maybe, all of them just aren’t going to Cedar Point.  We had the huge Ohio Bike Week in June, people coming up for Lake Erie and the Islands, July 4th is always a huge weekend, weddings, indoor waterparks etc.  So for that reporter to state that the “local economy is taking a hit” and “almost every motel has a vacancy sign out front” is wrong, untruthful, irresponsible reporting and actually, the exact opposite of what is going on. So there ya go…took me a while to write it and it’s long, but I hope you all enjoy my “spin” on Cedar Point’s attendance.
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coasterdad Site Admin User is Offline Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 1565	Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:43 am    Post subject: · Quote Nice post AP7 and I have to say I agree with most of it. While I don't think Geauga Lakes closing is entirely responsible for CP's attendance drop I do think it has something to do with it. While visiting other parks this season I have had some sort of GL shirt on and invariably someone will strike up a conversation regarding GL. I find this rather odd because folks not from NE Ohio don't really care about GL. All of the conversations revolve around how terrible it is that it closed and why did it have to. Most people know that it is owned by the same company that own Cedar Point and are none to happy with the decision. I have also noticed increased attendance in some of these parks, notably Kennywood. I have been there several times in the past in June and most rides are walk ons. When I went during this past week it seemed much busier than normal. Maybe if Cf would have advertised GL properly attendance would have picked up - thats just an assumption though on my part. I do think that CP's attendance will pick up during July and August but I doubt it will be at previous years levels. Cedar Fair has admitted that other parks in the chain are doing well so some people must have disposable income. Why is the "worlds greatest amusement park" suffering more than the others? Is the economy worse here in the NE that CP is suffering? Honestly I don't think so. I believe it is a combination of many factors most of which could have been controlled by the great and all knowing Cedar Fair. They dug this grave now lets see them dig themselves out. Most people discount some of the recent media coverage as false or stretching the truth. I don't see those same people complaining when CF stretches the truth as they do in all of their comments. Media coverage is coverage nonetheless and it has made a lot more people aware of the situation going on. I am sure that some of this awareness is responsible for some of the loss of attendance. I have a simple solution on how to get CF back on track. It was stated in another post but needs repeating here again. Cedar Fairs management is stuck in the 70's. A new vision is needed to get back to the principles of what Cedar Fair stands for and a shake up in executive management is long overdue. Until that happens CF stocks will continue to fall just like its attendance. _________________ Greed is what caused GL's demise and that just makes me sick. Lets do what we can to rat out Kinzel - hes a snake. In the end the truth will come out and we will then see whos laughing at who.
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Flyingscooter Double Loop User is Offline Joined: 13 Oct 2007 Posts: 209 Location: Cleveland	Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:53 am    Post subject: · Quote My 2 cents: I don't think GL has anything to do with this. The economy sucks, gas is at record highs, and so with it goes food prices and so forth. Entertainment will take a huge hit this summer. It may be just a case of: "dump the stock before the stock dumps you."   Look at the market lately and tell me there isn't a 'panic' mentality. Reminds me of Trading Places: "Mortimer!!! SELL!!!! SELLL!!!! SELLLLLLLLL!!!!!" BTW, i'm no analyst... Just a working stiff that spends almost twice as much as i did a year ago on the same stuff. _________________ >>>>>Feuer FREI<<<<<< BANG BANG!
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ScrewCrew88 Beaver Land Mine Ride User is Offline Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 38	Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:15 pm    Post subject: · Quote I think any share holder of Cedar Fair units should be wondering "what in the world is going on?!?!"  As a company that generates a billion dollars in revenue, something just isn't right when translated over to the stock market.  What could that possibly be? * One thing is the structure of how Cedar Fair is set-up, that being a limited-partnership.  For many people it is not a wise or beneficial investment (too lengthy to go into) so that in itself could be a deterent. * Slow growth industry.  I know, I know...every year we hear how hundreds of millions of people visit theme parks and it increases anywhere from 1-5%.  The reality is those are "world-wide" statistics that include fast-growth areas like India, China and the Middle East.  Here in America the industry is pretty much tapped out.  Think of it as a pie, you are working with the same amount of people and they just shift around from visiting one park to another each year.  There really isn't any growth as far as adding more people to the system.  The CEO of Cedar Fair himself has said they are competing against various other forms of recreation now that were not a factor 10-20 years ago.  I think this summer you will definetely see flat if-not falling attendance figures (that is if companies are TRUTHFUL in what they report, that is a whole other story). * Debt.  The big elephant in the room for both Cedar Fair and Six Flags.  Billion plus dollars worth of debt in an industry where there is slow-to-no growth unless you find new forms of revenue streams; frankly the debt scares investors off who want to make FAST money NOW.  Truthfully, I think Six Flags has done an excellent job in finding new forms of revenue streams such as the focus on advertising, selling sponsorships, Fast Lane Q-bots (as much as I think that system is unfair for those who can't afford), etc.  Cedar Fair on the other hand does nothing but stick with what is tried-and-true...like I have said before: "if it worked in 1975 then it is good enough today!" seems to be the mantra coming down from the CEO. * Per-caps.  This is where I get to vent!  Everyone knows that per-caps seem to be the industry's favorite way of proving to the investment community "see we are making improvements each year in guest spending!"  The whole thing is a SCAM and the investment community has to be a bunch of fools for not figuring out the scam!  Maybe now they are figuring it out and have reflected that in the stock price?  You see, per-caps include everything that "we" as guests spend money on in the parks: food, games, retail items, up-charge attractions, hotels....you name.  Haven't you ever noticed how prices start out at one point in the beginning of the year and by the end of July/beginning of August they end up raising those same prices?  A good example is parking always going up by a dollar each August 1st.  This is how the seasonal theme park companies are able to give "glowing reports" to the investment community and financial markets that everything is wonderful, they are making a ton of money, guests are spending a ton of money, etc etc.  The truth is if there weren't these ever-so-small, incremental increases that occured at strategic times each season per-cap figures would not be so glowing in the third and fourth quarter financial reports parks give out which they emphasize as the periods when the "bulk of their business occurs."  (Keep in mind these increases are above-and-beyond the basic increases of product costing more, raising prices to cover operating costs, etc.) * Bad PR.  Who's to say right now Cedar Fair isn't paying the price for bad PR created from the closing of Geauga Lake or the stadium issue in California or people revolting against the high-cost of items inside the park and the deteriorating customer service that exists?  Could be a possibility for anyone who is doing research before making an investment decision.  I know the stadium issue out in California has raised a lot of "eyebrows" since Cedar Fair has publicly changed their minds on the entire project at least 2 or 3 times (first being in favor, then being against, now being neutral..whatever that means!).  Has to make one wonder..who is running this company and how could they flip-flop so many times?!?! * Economy.  Yep things just suck economically now for a lot of people.  Come July/August I think you will see a lot of families have to decide between buying back-to-school supplies and clothes or taking a vacation...frankly the school is going to win.  Definitely this impacts entertainment/recreation/hospitality stocks. There you have it, a few insights and thoughts on why I think the stock has tanked and probably will only get worse before it shows signs of improvement.
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Catchthebrassring Double Loop User is Offline Joined: 07 Jan 2008 Posts: 232	Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:03 pm    Post subject: · Quote Congratulations Dick You've hit a 52 week Low. www.nasdaq.com/aspx/nasdaqlastsale.aspx?symbol=FUN&selected=FUN I definitely think the closing of Geauga Lake has something to do with it. I know my family even though it's only four people are not going to Cedar Point this year because of it. Even though it's only four of us multiply that by {only dick knows} how many and it's probably a substantial number. It's not just the people who post here that are angry. When I went to the Avon Duck Tape Festival to see Gary Lewis even he made the comment about how terrible that Geauga Lake is gone. Dick has created a PR nightmare and it's not going to go away till he resigns and apologizes to the Cleveland/Geauga Lake community. _________________ "Be ashamed to die until you have achieved some victory for humanity."  Horace Mann Geauga Lake will always remain in our hearts and memories. On June 17th & 18 2008 dick drove the final 2 nails into the coffin of our beloved Geauga Lake
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Ray P Riptide Run User is Offline Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 337	Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject: · Quote Catchthebrassring wrote: Dick has created a PR nightmare and it's not going to go away till he resigns and apologizes to the Cleveland/Geauga Lake community. Resigns?  Maybe.  Apologize to the community?  Never.  If it were to be an apology, it would be the classic heel wrestler apology like this: "Ladies, gentlemen, and out of town roller coaster weirdos.  I have called everyone here today to make a statement regarding the closure of Geauga Lake Family Amusement Park.  And that statement is... I'm sorry."  (long pause for dramatic effect)   (Dick suddenly changes his voice to a hostile tone) "I'm sorry I didn't do it 20 years earlier!  Somehow that damn company from Oklahoma City came in and got a hold of them before we did.  If I had my way, that park never would have seen its 100th Anniversary.  All of you people here can go straight to hell... or Cedar Point if you want to ride seventeen of the world's greatest rolliecoasters.  (begins laughing maniacally)Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!" Ray P. (who unfortunately has the song "This Diamond Ring" stuck in his head)
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Skippy Beaver Land Mine Ride User is Offline Joined: 03 Jul 2007 Posts: 95 Location: Stow, OH	Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:27 pm    Post subject: · Quote Just got back from Holiday World and now getting ready to go to Kennywood. I think if Cedar Fair wants attendance increases then they need to lower admission and in park prices. I know they are a business and they need to make money but they are overcharging just to make up for lowered attendance instead of lowering prices to make it more attractive (screwing over the customers who do go, thus killing repeat business, and not future proofing the park). Maybe its just me but Holiday World admission was incredibly cheap, free parking, soft drinks, sun tan lotion and it looked to me like their attendance was sky rocketing. Not to mention they seem to be making a healthy profit while not robbing the customers as soon as they get in. I bet they get way more repeat business because of this. Now that I'm going to Kennywood, I went to their website for a four pack of tickets, and got this comparison chart: KENNYWOOD         $74.95 + FREE parking Cedar Point        $171.80 + 10.00 parking Six Flags (KY)        $159.96 + 5.00 parking Hershey Park (PA) $191.80 + 6.00 parking So what the hell makes Cedar Points parking lot so great? With the economy so crappy and gas at an all time high, that parking fee will probably turn most people off before even getting into the park. Just some thoughts but catering to the economy couldn't hurt profits and certainly should increase attendance, especially from locals. _________________ CFVIP wrote: Whenever CP does something amazing you always have to contradict the truth. Everyone needs to understand that CP does amazing things, but there is a conspiracy out there to keep this truth from you.
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