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To answer Ray P

1)He works for Cedar Fair just like we all thought

2)He works for Cedar Fair, they must keep tabs on us

I still think Cedar Fair had some "UNKNOWN NAME" person buy it, so if someone would of really bid on it that day, they would of never won! Plus, whats up with the no name, must have something to hide
"Dick Kenzil" !!!

One last thing, everybody here on this site has been right about everything else, what makes you think we are wrong now!
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(ACFG)Anti-Cedar Fair Group

Bingo! My thoughts pretty much since the auction. We are such a strong group that Dick has "coasterowner" checking up on us....
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Jerry

These are some general thoughts that no one should take as a personal attack.

I see a lot of valid questions, but few facts. I think the tone of the coaster owner's communications (which seemed angry and too defensive of Cedar Fair to make sense) and the unanswered questions led to more questions. But once questions have been asked, I don't see a point in continuing to hammer it.

He is gone from the net, for good, so the questions will never be answered here. Maybe in the media, when the story is resolved.

Conneaut Lake Park has a good Internet approach. You don't see Jack Moyers writing angry responses to statements about prior owners or even current issues. They do have employees who care about the park promoting the park online, always in a positive way and not responding to criticism with anger.

As to how strong any group is, I wonder.

How many people hung a single flyer for the April 25 town hall meeting?
How many people are trying to make Geauga County Historical Society's Haybaler barn relocation & Geauga Lake exhibit a reality through either a small donation, spreading the word or volunteering to help?
How many people have written actual letters? In the past year?

I know some have. There is our strength, we could use more people putting words into action.

The guy is gone, the questions have been asked. The lack of answers is what it is. I am not going to tell anyone to "get over it" but I sincerely wonder what we are achieving by typing more words on the Internet.

Skyglider, please don't take this as a personal attack either, but what makes you think he is gone for good from the net? Have you talked to him? Though you aren't telling people to "get over it", you are trying to shut us up, so to speak. Why can't anyone say that we think that CF had someone buy the Dipper so nobody else can? The last time I said that, you told me, polite as it was, to stop it or else it can damage the chances of Dipper being saved. Now as far as you not knowing how strong a group we have, I think that people who donated money, hung up flyers, and wrote letters care just as much as the people who did not. You don't have to volunteer, or donate money to prove you care. I think we have a very strong group because of one thing... our LOVE for our Geauga Lake Park. I am sorry you don't think that. I apologize to you if you think this is an attack, becuase it truly isn't. I just don't like being told to be quiet about things I am passionate about.
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Jerry

BigDipperLover wrote:

Though you aren't telling people to "get over it", you are trying to shut us up, so to speak. Why can't anyone say that we think that CF had someone buy the Dipper so nobody else can? The last time I said that, you told me, polite as it was, to stop it or else it can damage the chances of Dipper being saved.

I said nothing like that at all. Please don't discuss private mail conversations on the forums.

I absolutely did not say that. You should still have a private mail where in the midst of trying to pull off a positive event at the Big Dipper Town Hall meeting on April 25 along with Coasterdad, D Mitch, Gunkey and several others including speakers like Charlie Jacques, Jim Futrell and Howard Gillooly (none of who would have wanted to participate in a bash fest), I said "I too have mixed feelings, but trust me when I say negativity toward the auction buyer or Cedar Fair will not help right now, and can actually hurt."

The goal was a positive tone for the event on April 25 and related discussions. I went on to say "I don't mean to tell people what to say, but we desperately want to do something positive here that increases awareness of the Big Dipper and hopefully promotes preserving it. Unfortunately any whiff of negativity could backfire."

The last thing we wanted was the media to cast the event as a forum for whining and complaining. At the same time the Big Dipper owner's agent had indicated (posted on these very forums) that he planned to attend on April 25. That seemed a positive, potential opportunity. Opportunities arising out the meeting were extended afterwards. If you have any other questions about our private communications (between you and me, that is), please private mail me.

I also said "The truth will come out eventually, and people will be held accountable then." That is not a threat, just an observation based on the fact that the truth usually does surface, and people then have to take responsibility for their actions.

BigDipperLover wrote:

what makes you think he is gone for good from the net? Have you talked to him?

Nope, but although Coasterdad did not tell me the details, I understand he was informed that Coasterowner is no longer on the Internet.

As to your other points, I think actions speak louder than words, and have more potential for actually making a difference. No offense intended.

I think if we discuss specifics of things you and I talked about we should continue in private mail. Buy you a coke or other beverage of choice if we ever meet up, no hard feelings intended. Smile

Skyglider, I apologize, I went back and read them, and you didn't say it. I also apologize about speaking about private messages on here, I didn't know that was being rude. When I hear or read someone, even my wife say "I don't mean to tell you not to do...(insert whatever here)", that means even though they don't mean to, they are still doing it, just doing it politely, so that is why I get my defense up. I also agree actions speak louder than words,, especially since I donate money, hung up flyers, etc, but sometimes people can't do those things for some reason, and I don't want the people that can't help like that to feel that the people who can are better or care more than they do. That's all I was saying about that. So, Skyglider, no harm, no foul. I certainly never meant any harm to you, as I know you didn't to me.
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Jerry

No problem BDL.

In my last post I just wanted to clarify that I never said to anyone to not say bad things about the Big Dipper owner or its chances will be killed. I did private mail BDL and one other member back around the time of the meeting as described above. Thanks to both of you for holding back at the time, no one is asking anyone to do that any more (but don't lose the high ground by going too far, name calling or stating speculation as fact -- think of how any given post or statement would look to a third party reading it -- whose side would they take?)

Maybe I was too optimistic. My view was it could not hurt to try to be positive about the Big Dipper owner (and in connection with the town hall meeting Cedar Fair). I think I have clung to that view tightly.

At the same time, the suggestion by Coasterowner that anything said here could impact the Big Dipper's chances in any way is just astounding to me. How could a few comments or questions here affect a legitimate business plan?

At Euclid Beach yesterday a lot of people had fun for free while others gladly spent a fair amount of money on ice cream, food, popcorn balls, candy kisses, dvds, books and patches. People were excited to see remnants of cement bases for a handful or rides. It seems like there is even more of an opportunity at Geauga Lake with the Big Dipper in place. If that comes about, the place will make a ton of money and no one will remember anything that was said on a message board back in 2009. Why should what is said here (particularly about Cedar Fair as opposed to the owner) derail anything?

I certainly don't fault anyone for caring about Geauga Lake even if they can't get more involved. Times are tough, and time is limited and subject to all kinds of other obligations. I wish more people would take action, but know that many, many people already have. I hope we can continue to be an even bigger part of helping that Geauga County Historical Society project become a reality.

And I do think this is a very strong site -- from Coasterdad warning people the park might be closing back in 2007, to Gunkey breaking the news about the ride auction back in March 2008 before any of the media picked up the story, John Peck spotting the rides up for sale on Intermark in December 2007, people sharing stories about what was done and said leading up to the closing, updates on events in the park by Rideops90s, Acepreservation and others -- this is one powerful site that has kept on top of this story and has played more of a role than people realize.

So the questions by Ray P. and others are very valid. I am done saying "focus on the future" because as someone else has said, there is little apparent reason to be optimistic that the Big Dipper or anything else from Geauga Lake will be saved.

At the same time, the Big Dipper is still standing and is still intact. So the possibility still exists -- and at the far edge of that possibility is a big media event. "First on Five: Big Dipper Bulldozed!" I hope not, and that would surely raise up all kinds of negative PR even if we all keep quiet.

Here is how I see it. I do believe actions do speak louder than words. I would rather have the Big dipper come down knowing that I tried everything I could to save it(ie writing letters, supporting events and helping the society out). It is kind of like saying I almost went to help out at the nursing home or I almost went to see a sick friend. You can say you wanted too but when it comes to the end, you never did.

I know there are some questions that I would like answered and Things that I don't understand and theorys that I have , but The facts are that The Dipper is still standing where it should be and I know for a fact that there is a whole lot of love for our park right here on this site!

I can't afford to donate any money to the society but I can help spread the word and send constructive letters to cedar fair and let them know that I am a loyal customer of theirs and I would very much like to take my son for a ride on the Dipper!

I know that I wear rose colored glasses sometimes and I am a fan of Cleveland(browns and all), but I will be there to support what I feel is important. So until I see the Dipper torn down, I will have faith that it will be saved and hope for the best. If nothing ever comes out of this ordeal, I have made some very good friends that I like very very much!

I hope that made some sense, I was just thinking and typing how I feel.

The Big Dippers future is in jeopardy and everyone on this forum has pretty much figured it out. Its an unfortunate situation where both parties (CF and coasterowner) made some mistakes. I think we all know the current owner never had any intention of saving the ride, he said so from day one. What many people don't know is that the winning bidder was seen with CF folks on the day of the auction well before the auction took place. I have seen and have copies of these pictures. My question would be what did they have to tell him and why would he have been singled out of all the other bidders that day?

I would love to see Big Dipper run again and maybe coasterowner can do it. But without any prior experience I don't see how. From the town hall meeting to discussions on these forums I think he should have plenty of ideas, but it doesn't take over year to tell us something. My advice to him at this point would be to sell it at a profit to someone who can. All parties would be happy and everyone gets what they want.

BigDipperLover wrote:

I agree. No matter what, please don't tell people to let it go. To me, that equals "Get over it", and we have been told that over and over again, so please give it a rest.

I agree. I don't know....... I'm glad the coaster is still there and I'm still hoping for a positive outcome but some of the posts here alluding that people should get over it, don't sit too well.

If one has something to say, perhaps they should say it.

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