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John Peck Double Loop User is Offline Joined: 03 Jul 2007 Posts: 279 Location: Columbus, Ohio USA	Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:49 am    Post subject: · Quote If Demon Drop is a classic, antique ride then I'm a size 4. • Ridership is a fraction of what it once was (and as a front-gate ride, thats a bad thing) • There WILL be a new coaster in 2011 (that's all I'm saying) • Hydes at GL was a nightmare as it was torn apart when it left Great America, not taken care of at Rocky Point and was patched back together at GL. It was in terrible shape. • There is obviously life left in this old ride • Its been up for sale for 5 years with no takers • It gives Knotts another small footprint ride as they are tight on space. • It opens up a new patch of land at CP • CP have 25 years of maintenance records on this ride, so they know every inch of it. It does seem like an odd transfer, but it looks good on paper. Its not the first ride CP has moved to another park (not including GL)
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coasterdad Site Admin User is Offline Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 2161	Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:46 am    Post subject: · Quote John Peck wrote: • There WILL be a new coaster in 2011 (that's all I'm saying) Hmmm OK ill bite. IF there is to be a new coaster at CP in 2011 where do you think the money might come from at the nearly bankrupt company? Do you think Kinzel will sell his house, cash in more stocks, layoff more people that know what they are doing? Just curious. EDIT... I guess is official now. CF is now announcing that you can get one last ride on it. It would have been nice for CF to do the same with one last ride on X-Flight, Mr. Hyde, Monorail, Serial Thriller, Big Dipper........ The "Demon" Drops One Last Time It's time to say "goodbye" to a Cedar Point legend. The Demon Drop thrill ride is dropping out of the ride lineup on Sunday, November 1. This free-fall giant, giving nearly 19 million rides in 27 seasons, is heading to another Cedar Fair park, but now's your chance to take one last drop. Plus, we'll be announcing a contest very soon - you'll have the chance to literally be the last rider on Demon Drop at park closing on November 1. Ride it now before it's gone! _________________ GL's demise was caused by one mans foolish greed. In the end the truth will come out as it always does.
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CuddyTheFlash Double Loop User is Offline Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 244 Location: In the darkest corner of your mind	Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:46 pm    Post subject: · Quote Oh well, I guess I can accept the best ride at Cedar Point is leaving, but at least my park isn't closing.  I'll be able to enjoy it next year! _________________ I don't like a certain company so everything they do MUST be wrong, even if it's right.  And that makes me look like a bigger fool. Take a stand against coasters that hurt or kill people.  Holiday World & Knotts Berry Farm, we are watching you!
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ffejie Thunder Falls User is Offline Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 794	Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:08 pm    Post subject: · Quote Hey Cuddy!! They are having a contest for the last rides. If you win the contest we can hold hands and go on it together!!
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doubleloop Splash Landing User is Offline Joined: 04 Jul 2007 Posts: 181	Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:19 pm    Post subject: · Quote http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091021/BUSINESS07/910219974 http://www.foxtoledo.com/dpp/news/local/wupw_Cedar_Point_removing_Demon_Drop_thrill_ride_tfajr_10210 9 Both articles are full of Innes spit Dribble out. _________________ Confidentiality is telling one person at a time. Don't let anyone steal the cheese from your sandwich!
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roost0502 Beaver Land Mine Ride User is Offline Joined: 19 Sep 2009 Posts: 4	Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:26 pm    Post subject: · Quote I rode Demon Drop for the first time in 15 years this summer and really enjoyed the drop. It's sad for me to see it go because it's more unique than the coasters and even Power Tower doesn't give the same sensation. My 6 year old rode MF 10 times in an hour during a passholder event but tried Demon Drop once and was scared to death. That said, I was at the park all summer and the line is always empty. The vast majority of visitors are not going to care at all that it's gone. It is probably part of some long term plans to build but there will obviously have to be other changes before anything of significance gets installed. I agree with some previous posts that Disaster Transport is probably not going anywhere. On a separate note, I have read multiple posts over the past couple months that talk about CF being financially crushed and on the verge of BKO. Earnings are definitely down the past two years but the company did make money last year. Revenue has increased over the past two years and debt has decreased. They also continue to pay a 10% dividend when so many other companies have slashed theirs to little or nothing. Yes they dropped it this year but the stock price was already down to $10-$12 at the time. I get that most people on this site harbor some serious animosity towards CF and I completely understand that.  I am new to the boards and don't want to come off as a CP spokesperson.  If GL bought my park and closed it I would be just as angry and don't see myself ever letting that go.  I am not here to defend the company but those statements come every so often and seem to be drastically overstating thier financial health. The last two years have been difficult for most industries. I work for a company that ranked in the top 10 in earnings across the globe in 06' and 07' and we lost money last quarter. I'm pretty sure we are not going bankrupt, but every industry has been affected by unemployment/housing market/credit costs. Another long post... I need to work on that. Not trying to be argumentative with the last paragraph but I read their financial statements because I consider investing. The price is probably cheap now if the company is going to stick around.
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Skyglider Tidal Wave Bay User is Offline Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 1103	Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:51 am    Post subject: · Quote The debt is the thing that bugs the conscience of the king. Well, I don't actually know how much the Kin-g is concerned about it, but it has kept several VPs awake and listening to the Sandusky area crickets. So before you invest, consider more than the cash flow and EBDITA. The unit price was $34.97 in March of 2004, it is down to about $10.25 today. The dividend used to be $1.92 annually, now it is $1. The debt is a big reason for that. They have done a skillful job avoiding default or bankruptcy, so far, but the company still faces significant long-term challenges. Why else would they be moving a 26 year old ride across a continent? It is a cheap way to freshen up the ride line up at Knotts and free up some space at Cedar Point. And the price of scrap is much lower than 2008 when the more historic Double Loop was scrapped. Make no mistake, preservation is not a high priority (look at Double Loop, Hotel Breakers alterations that resulted in it losing National Landmark status, the handling of Big Dipper by Cedar Fair). People used to criticize Six Flags for shuffling rides around, but at least their relocated rides tended to be much newer than Demon Drop. All of this is not because Geauga Lake closed, but I think it has a lot to do with the debt related to Cedar Fair's $1.24 billion purchase of the Paramount Parks in May 2006 (on top of other expenditures like the $144 million paid for Geauga Lake in March 2004 and the $25 million spent to create Wildwater Kingdom). Said Mr. Kinzel of the Paramount Parks purchase in May 29, 2006 in Crain's Cleveland Business: "We put everything on the back burner,'' the Cedar Fair CEO said of the weeks leading up to the announcement of the deal. "We've always sort of wanted them. Sometimes you have to go off your plan a little bit and adjust.'' One of those adjustments resulted in Geauga Lake becoming a source of used rides and unsold real estate in September 2007. By summer 2006 the word was already out that certain lakefront land on the Aurora-Bainbridge line was potentially available. On another note, this is hardly a site of Cedar Fair haters. A lot of people go to their parks. No one has made a big deal about a story earlier this year that could have negatively affected Cedar Point's attendance, if blown out of proportion. It hit some other sites, but not a word here. A lot of us are still hoping Cedar Fair does something to support preserving the Big Dipper and maybe even the Carousel at Geauga Lake. It would generate a lot of good will, amusement parks are an industry where that translates into dollars. That is an asset Cedar Fair is currently lacking among many in Northeast Ohio. _________________ "It's a very special ride. We want to make sure it has a proper home." Cedar Fair Spokesman Innes on Big Dipper, 12th oldest roller coaster on Earth. Last edited by Skyglider on Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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KinzelKnew Beaver Land Mine Ride User is Offline Joined: 26 Aug 2008 Posts: 97	Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:01 pm    Post subject: · Quote Seems like the above poster has Cedar Fair figured out, its great to relive some of Richards old comments. This is exactly what he hates to see. Cedar Fair never intended to even mention the Demon Drop being removed before the end of teh season, but once it was noted by someone checking a Buena Park newsletter, there it was. Once released Cedar Fair spun it into something that may bring a few older riders back for a last spin during the final 6 days of the season. The king of foot in mouth Robin Innes said Demon Drop "had been for sale for several years and we couldn't find an appropriate buyer. So another consideration was to move it to another park. I am sure enthusiasts couldn't agree more Robin. The ride is 27 years old and has been for sale for the past three years and NO ONE WANTED IT, that should be a clue as to its popularity. That and the fact that the lines for the ride have been nearly non existent the past few years. Mr. Innes also said there are no plans to fill the space Demon Drop occupies, come on, really?? I have a feeling that almost all guests of Knotts are going to know their new ride is a 30 year old design handed down. Seems like Cedar Fair who used to make fun of Six Flags ride rotation practice is doing the same thing now, although I think they didn't get all the memos on how it works. This is just more proof of a comapny in trouble. Cedar Fair is now the laughing stock of amusement park management teams all over the world. Keep it up because we all need a good laugh Richard.
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roost0502 Beaver Land Mine Ride User is Offline Joined: 19 Sep 2009 Posts: 4	Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:34 pm    Post subject: · Quote Skyglider's numbers are right and I am certainly not saying the company is a picture of financial health.  The Paramount purchase obviously burdened them with debt and the past two years magnify the problem of paying it back.  They do continue to outperform most in the industry though.  And as I mentioned they did drop the dividend but still left it at $1 in an industry where most don't have a dividend.  No doubt they need to be creative in reducing what they owe, but they are not on the verge of BKO- it's just not true.   Also, I don't think everyone on this site is a CF hater, but there are a lot.  Reading through the posts that is pretty clear.  And really, that doesn't matter.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, especially in a place like this.
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Ray P Coral Cove User is Offline Joined: 12 Jul 2007 Posts: 501	Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:35 pm    Post subject: · Quote KinzelKnew wrote: Mr. Innes also said there are no plans to fill the space Demon Drop occupies Sort of like how there were no plans to close the ride side of Geauga Lake and how those rumors were started on the internet by teenagers?  Honestly, the amount of lies that come out of that buffoon's mouth must be setting some sort of Guinness World Record.   Quote: I have a feeling that almost all guests of Knotts are going to know their new ride is a 30 year old design handed down. Magic Mountain, roughly 40 miles north of Knott's, had the exact same ride until recently when it was removed due to age, maintenance issues and the fact that ridership had declined.  So I sort of agree that guests may see this "new" ride and think that it's old.  I'm sure the CF Spin Machine will make DD sound like the greatest ride ever, though.  "This new, state-of-the-art scream machine is the latest in thrill ride technology.  When the $6 million Demon Drop premieres in May, 2010, it will be the only ride of its kind in North America", or something to that extent.   Lance over at Screamscape also said that it would have been nice to give DD a new theme, perhaps in a mine setting or something that reflects the atmosphere at Knott's.  Seems CF is more concerned with just plunking the ride down without regard for theme because as we all know, if it works at Cedar Point, it will work at any park, right Dickie K, Jack Falfass and Sweaty Bill? _________________ http://rayp.smugmug.com
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hookyboysb Beaver Land Mine Ride User is Offline Joined: 15 Aug 2009 Posts: 36	Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:43 pm    Post subject: · Quote Quote from Kings Island Central: Quote: Okay, so I think the chances of this happening are about 30% but here goes my theory anyways. During the viral campaign before the announcement for Shoot the Rapids they many times mentioned lightning really does strike twYce. Many have drawn their own conclusions to that based on what was announced, but perhaps it's more about what wasn't announced. With Demon Drop now on it's way out and CGA having plans for the GCI that would conveniently fit in it's spot could it possibly be the other strike of lightning? We've all seen how quickly GCI can put up a coaster after having watched Terminator goe up very quickly. Just to add a little more fuel, STR was planned originally for 2009 so it would seem 2010 plans were already finalized as well. Thinking that Cedar Fair will likely do very cost effective rethemes of the Nick sections and only 3 of their parks recieving major capital investments it seems that a GCI may indeed be feasible in that regard to. Again I think the likelyhood of a coaster suprise at the point is unlikely for 2010, it's just some nice thinking.
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ffejie Thunder Falls User is Offline Joined: 18 Jun 2008 Posts: 794	Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:43 pm    Post subject: · Quote Is anyone planning for a last few rides in the next 2 weeks? we are planning on this sunday and possibly next Sunday if I can talk the mrs. into it!
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Neurodistortion Splash Landing User is Offline Joined: 30 Aug 2007 Posts: 117	Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:39 pm    Post subject: · Quote I believe down the road, Cedar Fair is going to have to make some big changes, including selling off some of their parks to loosen the debt. When the flagship park is experiencing falling revenue, then you know a company is in trouble. There's no reason to blame the economy on their situation, while it may have partly contributed to their current problems, it has more to do with CF's management practices and high prices than the economy in general. Also, I doubt Cedar Point is going to get a new coaster in 2011, they aren't going to take a ride out two years in advance to begin preparation for a new ride in that area considering that footprint of that ride is relatively small.
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ozzy4811 Beaver Land Mine Ride User is Offline Joined: 29 Mar 2009 Posts: 70	Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:26 pm    Post subject: · Quote this is the little artical that was in my local news paper. i live in massillon ohio SANDUSKY, OH — Cedar Point is ready to let go of its Demon Drop thrill ride, which has long been a fixture near the front of the amusement park in northern Ohio. The ride, which simulates the experience of free falling from a 10-story tower, will be moved for the 2010 season to Knott’s Berry Farm, Cedar Point’s sister park in California. Cedar Point spokesman Robin Innes says the Demon Drop has been popular at the park in Sandusky, but it’s been there 27 years and might be more appreciated at a new location. He says he doesn’t know what might replace the ride. Cedar Point’s Web site says more than 7.8 million riders have experienced Demon Drop in the last 12 years.  ——— Information from: Sandusky Register,
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coasterdad Site Admin User is Offline Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 2161	Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:58 pm    Post subject: · Quote Neurodistortion wrote: There's no reason to blame the economy on their situation, while it may have partly contributed to their current problems, it has more to do with CF's management practices and high prices than the economy in general. Well stated. CF is not the only amusement park company in trouble, look at SF, Disney, etc. The business model that worked well 10 - 20 years ago no longer works today. Low entrance fees and high food prices have turned into high entrance fees and ridiculous food prices. Families are not going to spend $300 to stand in the sun all day and ride 3 - 4 rides...its just not fun anymore. Look at some other parks with a different business model. Waldameer for instance has increased its attendance two years in a row with substantially shorter operating season. CF and others take note. _________________ GL's demise was caused by one mans foolish greed. In the end the truth will come out as it always does.
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