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coasterdad
Site Admin
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Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Posts: 1565
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject: List of CF's biggest shareholders |
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http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=FUN
Hmmm - I wonder how this might come in handy.
_________________
Greed is what caused GL's demise and that just makes me sick. Lets do what we can to rat out Kinzel - hes a snake.
In the end the truth will come out and we will then see whos laughing at who.
Last edited by coasterdad on Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Chris Carlyle
Splash Landing
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Joined: 25 Sep 2007
Posts: 192
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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When contacting any of these institutions or mutual fund managers, you have remember that their only concern is with the almighty dollar, so it won't do any good to talk about how Cedar Fair ruined a piece of history or how the closing of Geauga Lake broke your heart.
Rather, the goal should be to demonstrate the utter incompetence displayed by Dick Kinzel and other members of upper management. Some of these market players have enough money that they CAN influence things like whether or not Dick gets fired as CEO of the company.
Point out how the decision to close Geauga Lake will negatively effect Cedar Fair's business in the future... talk about how the current dividend is not sustainable given the level of debt Cedar Fair has on its books... explain how Dick and company are using spin and misleading comments in press releases that don't reflect the reality of the company.
The last thing someone with a large stake in a company wants is dishonest management, and that is exactly what Cedar Fair has.
Unless an activist investor with a particular interest in Cedar Fair comes along, this is the best way to influence how things are done at the top. |
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Dominator56
Tidal Wave Bay
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Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 1167
Location: Akron, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:55 am Post subject: |
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Just a key note, was looking at stock lately, they are currently at a real low right now, so far the lowest before today I've seen was 21 a share they are down to 20.89 its the lowest I've seen ...I bet it will only get worse.
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Geauga Lake I will miss you! |
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IloveGeauga
Coral Cove
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Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 587
Location: Toledo, Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Yippee!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Dominator56
Tidal Wave Bay
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Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 1167
Location: Akron, Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:38 am Post subject: |
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stock prices for cedar fair sunk yet again to 20.25 down by 1.24% (Its funny, since the GL thing I have seen it sink more then rise) so our word of mouth is working, I hope it sinks alot more.
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Geauga Lake I will miss you! |
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fercryinoutloud
Beaver Land Mine Ride
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Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:10 am Post subject: didya ever wonder??? |
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I used to live in metro Detroit. I've lost Edgewater park, Boblo Island and even Autoworld(Flint) and yet I'm not quite as bitter as some of the hardened posters to this site. I've known the loss of an area landmarks(Hudson's flagship department store, Olympia stadium). And I've seen the lost(Tiger stadium and the Silverdome, going going...).
To read Wikipedia on Geauga Lake, changes have been frequent and landscape changing over the last 125 years(even land disposition, that essentially created what became Sea-world).
I got to Geauga Lake only once in my travels, and I cannot say the trip left me breathless, on the one hand the landscaping and que lines were impressive. But getting into the parking lot and the grease spray I got on El Dorado, not so impressive to me.
The major problem(having been to parks ranging from Hershypark, Six Flags properties, Cedar Fair Properties and even to the House of Mouse) I have is this: With a crappy economy, real estate in the dumper and real job loss in the midwest- is complaining about the demise of the park and inflicting pain on Cedar Fare shareholders, the best use of our time and resources? Even the original London Bridge is in AZ, is there no one that can start a site to collect donations to save the remaining rides and coasters? Is it impossible to dream of a salvage that saves some of your memories from your childhood in maybe a place close the masses of loving fans and guests of this unique park??? |
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fercryinoutloud
Beaver Land Mine Ride
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Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:40 am Post subject: moving foreward... |
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Cedar Fair is a publicly traded partnership, not a C corporation. This creates several unique situations for unit holders, including multistate tax filings. Institutions hold less than 25% of the outstanding units. There some special situations that the PTP unit holders enjoy/endure: 1) The quarterly payout represents a return of capital, not a dividend. As part of the tax code, this type of corporate structure must return 90-95% of profits to the unit holders- who are then taxed on the income at their personal tax rates. 2) Due to the nature of (1) above, the units aren't really available for placement into 401k or IRA's. (This is the detractor that keeps away more institutions, i e. banks, mutual funds...you know institutions.) 3) In bad years, the return of capital can be lower. Losses incurred by the PTP are passed to holders, who generally have to wait until the position(units held) is sold, to deduct them(losses) from the income received on sale(Schedule D, capital gains and losses). 4)When payouts on the units equalize to the price paid for the stock, any payouts over cost have to be reported as capital gains on a yearly basis. Driving the price down really will not have an effect on most current unitholders, as what is most important to them is their cost basis. 5) (This one is cool, to the extent one looks to the future for estate planning.) When one passes away and the units are passed down to the next generation, the units receive what is known as a step up. This means that if you paid $25 per unit and have held it for so long that you are paying on the distributions every year, if you are to pass away and the units go to your children, (they) can walk the same path detailed above because the value of the units(cost basis) becomes the current trading price on date of transfer(NOT zero, because the government generally won't let the child inherit any tax benefits accrued to the former holder(RIP).)
Now if you really want to send a message to the Cedar Fair, purchase the master partner. Every PTP must have a master partner and limited partners, soooo buying up the units after you make them fall by word of mouth won't be very productive, unless you are looking for income.(OOOPS sorry)
And one more thing... the split adjusted all time low for Cedar Fair is $5.00, there is still a ways to go. |
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coasterdad
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| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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While you may have noticed we are all upset about the closing of GL I don’t think you are getting the real reason we hate CF the way we do. Sure there have been many parks that closed but every one of them had management honest enough to tell their guests what was going to happen. Even with the case of Euclid Beach, while we all miss it, it was known well before its last day what was going to happen. What we are most upset about is the total lack of honesty CF has exhibited. From newspaper articles to actually speaking will its then general manager Bill Spehn all we got was, “no way will GL rides be closed”, “CF is committed to the park”, the rumor was started by some kids on the internet”.
Would we still be unhappy that GL was closed even if it was announced? Sure we would, but I don’t think that you would see the amount of hatred toward CF that you do now. To this day we still don’t have any official announcement. Dick has still not made any public comment except to say that it was underperforming while in another breath that CF attendance was up. I firmly believe that GL attendance was up this summer but we will never know because of the lying and dishonesty that this company is now known for.
As for stock prices and all the numbers you threw out I think number can be manipulated any way you want in your favor. The bottom line is that amusement parks these days charge way too much. For a family of four to pay a minimum of $200 to stand around in the lines in the hot sun is no longer fun. There are much better ways to spend a family’s entertainment dollar. Until some genius realizes this the whole amusement park industry is doomed.
_________________
Greed is what caused GL's demise and that just makes me sick. Lets do what we can to rat out Kinzel - hes a snake.
In the end the truth will come out and we will then see whos laughing at who. |
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fercryinoutloud
Beaver Land Mine Ride
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Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:01 am Post subject: entertainmet is way overrated |
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As for stock prices and all the numbers you threw out I think number can be manipulated any way you want in your favor. The bottom line is that amusement parks these days charge way too much. For a family of four to pay a minimum of $200 to stand around in the lines in the hot sun is no longer fun. There are much better ways to spend a family’s entertainment dollar. Until some genius realizes this the whole amusement park industry is doomed.
AMEN, you can spend $200 to sit in the stands or stadium for a couple of hours and see your favorite team(who I might add, will threaten the populace and politicians with team flight to get a new stadium, arena or ballpark.) If you think I'm manipulating numbers, try getting 4 tix to Jacobs(OOOPS) Progressive Park(?) or to the Cavs or Browns. I certainly am not fighting for Dick Kinzel or park mgt. here. I now live in Chicagoland (Three years now.) and Daniel Snyder (Washington Redskins, Six Flags) has turned his investment (about $6 per share) into a mere shadow of it's former self ($1.78 today). After a bitter proxy battle, he dislodged former mgt. installed his board, increased parking at Great America from $10 to $15. He also raised day pass by $20 and jerked season pass from 54.95 to 79.99(74.99 if you buy 4 or more...yippee). And oh yeah, where as you can reserve for FREE, a time to ride the hottest rides in the park at Disney parks and Cedar Fair parks(see rules for details), to do the same at GA is another $20 per person for Flash Pass...sheesh. Let's see $234.96 without Flash pass or $314.96 with, all before cost of travel to park and food.
No, I agree with you on the cost aspect of your argument. I do take offense with my "manipulation of numbers", this info is all in public domain, not a twist on my part. When I brought up Boblo in my first post, I mentioned(but did not explain, I'm sorry) the park because of similar circumstances... multiple owners in a short time and in Boblo's case- condo developement at expense of the park.
Snyder(Six Flags) let Astroworlds' sale continue because SIX needed the funds to pay debt. He then put nine more parks on the block, later selling seven of them. Derien Lake had an early closing last year, leading to the the same hand wringing and uncertainty that Geauga Lake has been going through now. The upshot here, once again SIX is still broke and a lot of the proceeds of that sale has had to go to bondholders and creditors to stay afloat.
Running a park is not cheap, you'll get no quibble from me there. I also agree that prices are outrageous, but I still stick to my guns here, start a grass roots effort to save the rides from the wrecking ball. I don't have much, but would try to help how I can. Start new memories with the surviving rides in a new setting, bridge to the past and don't let another Geauga Lake or Santas Village (Dundee, IL RIP 2006) happen. |
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Dominator56
Tidal Wave Bay
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Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 1167
Location: Akron, Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: Re: entertainmet is way overrated |
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| fercryinoutloud wrote: |
As for stock prices and all the numbers you threw out I think number can be manipulated any way you want in your favor. The bottom line is that amusement parks these days charge way too much. For a family of four to pay a minimum of $200 to stand around in the lines in the hot sun is no longer fun. There are much better ways to spend a family’s entertainment dollar. Until some genius realizes this the whole amusement park industry is doomed.
AMEN, you can spend $200 to sit in the stands or stadium for a couple of hours and see your favorite team(who I might add, will threaten the populace and politicians with team flight to get a new stadium, arena or ballpark.) If you think I'm manipulating numbers, try getting 4 tix to Jacobs(OOOPS) Progressive Park(?) or to the Cavs or Browns. I certainly am not fighting for Dick Kinzel or park mgt. here. I now live in Chicagoland (Three years now.) and Daniel Snyder (Washington Redskins, Six Flags) has turned his investment (about $6 per share) into a mere shadow of it's former self ($1.78 today). After a bitter proxy battle, he dislodged former mgt. installed his board, increased parking at Great America from $10 to $15. He also raised day pass by $20 and jerked season pass from 54.95 to 79.99(74.99 if you buy 4 or more...yippee). And oh yeah, where as you can reserve for FREE, a time to ride the hottest rides in the park at Disney parks and Cedar Fair parks(see rules for details), to do the same at GA is another $20 per person for Flash Pass...sheesh. Let's see $234.96 without Flash pass or $314.96 with, all before cost of travel to park and food.
No, I agree with you on the cost aspect of your argument. I do take offense with my "manipulation of numbers", this info is all in public domain, not a twist on my part. When I brought up Boblo in my first post, I mentioned(but did not explain, I'm sorry) the park because of similar circumstances... multiple owners in a short time and in Boblo's case- condo developement at expense of the park.
Snyder(Six Flags) let Astroworlds' sale continue because SIX needed the funds to pay debt. He then put nine more parks on the block, later selling seven of them. Derien Lake had an early closing last year, leading to the the same hand wringing and uncertainty that Geauga Lake has been going through now. The upshot here, once again SIX is still broke and a lot of the proceeds of that sale has had to go to bondholders and creditors to stay afloat.
Running a park is not cheap, you'll get no quibble from me there. I also agree that prices are outrageous, but I still stick to my guns here, start a grass roots effort to save the rides from the wrecking ball. I don't have much, but would try to help how I can. Start new memories with the surviving rides in a new setting, bridge to the past and don't let another Geauga Lake or Santas Village (Dundee, IL RIP 2006) happen. |
Heres my simple and quick fix make it cheaper, lower admission, food prices, souvenier prices, ect. NO family can have fun when it cost too much money. If it were low enough crowds would be just like it was when the industry was booming a few years back. This would of been a great solution for geauga lake, because it would of been affordable.
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Geauga Lake I will miss you! |
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coasterdad
Site Admin
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| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: Re: entertainmet is way overrated |
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| Dominator56 wrote: |
Heres my simple and quick fix make it cheaper, lower admission, food prices, souvenier prices, ect. NO family can have fun when it cost too much money. If it were low enough crowds would be just like it was when the industry was booming a few years back. This would of been a great solution for geauga lake, because it would of been affordable. |
I think this happened the last few years (especially 07) with the lowering of admission. The crowds WERE back, people WERE noticing, but The Dick had already made his decision - and I don't mean at the end of the season. 700,000 guests is not a bad number for a small family park, heck that park in Michigan doesn't even get that much.
One has to wonder what is really going on in that empty mind of The Dick.
_________________
Greed is what caused GL's demise and that just makes me sick. Lets do what we can to rat out Kinzel - hes a snake.
In the end the truth will come out and we will then see whos laughing at who. |
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Dominator56
Tidal Wave Bay
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Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 1167
Location: Akron, Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Well todays report on the stocks of our little fun has been sinking and is down again to 20.30. I just can't wait till the big ball drops and it hits them big time.
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afrmom@comcast.net
Riptide Run
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Joined: 28 Dec 2007
Posts: 377
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Still watching it daily arn't you? Can you say obsessed much? I'm their biggest fan and I don't even watch it daily! You people are more obsessed with CF than the people on Pointbuzz! I couldn't imagine spending every single second of every single day thinking of someone/something I hate. I guess you guys can, which is pretty sad. I feel sorry for you guys, I truly do. 
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Where are you May 10th?!? |
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dsloban
Thunder Falls
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Joined: 19 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: List of CF |
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| I know that I am upset about Geauga Lake, but I still love Cedarpoint and Kings Island! I know that there are so many reasons why CF closed Geauga Lake, but I know I would have understood it more if we were just given warning instead of closing it and tearing apart like they are! I was a season pass owner of Geauga LAke and this year we do have Maxx passes which I intend to enjoy, but I do feel like I have a lost a friend that I hav had my whole life! |
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Dominator56
Tidal Wave Bay
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Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 1167
Location: Akron, Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:20 am Post subject: |
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| afrmom@comcast.net wrote: |
| Still watching it daily arn't you? Can you say obsessed much? I'm their biggest fan and I don't even watch it daily! You people are more obsessed with CF than the people on Pointbuzz! I couldn't imagine spending every single second of every single day thinking of someone/something I hate. I guess you guys can, which is pretty sad. I feel sorry for you guys, I truly do. |
Yes, and no its not out of boredom. I'm happy the stock is going down its what those bastards need! I am no longer obsessed with cedar fair, but knowing they made a mistake and that they will get the chance to pay for it would be even better. I will sure as hell miss Geauga Lake, but never will I forgive them for what they did.
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