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Billyank1863
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 10:09 pm Post subject: Virginia Gov. John Letcher's Conditions for Settlement |
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Virginia Gov. John Letcher's Conditions for Settlement
In early January, 1861, Gov. John Letcher called Virginia's legislature into special session to consider, among other things, whether or not to call a secession convention. The Jan. 8 issue of the Richmond Enquirer contained a long speech which Gov. Letcher made to the legislature at the opening of this special session. During this speech Letcher, normally characterized as opposed to secession, gave a list of six conditions which he believed could relieve the growing secession crisis. I am indebted to Steve Miller of the University of Maryland for sending me a photocopy of Letcher's speech, from which this excerpt is taken.
What, then, is necessary to be done? The Northern States must strike from their statute books their personal liberty bills, and fulfill their consitutional obligations in regard to fugitive slaves and fugitives from justice. If our slaves escape into non-slaveholding states, they must be delivered up; if abandoned, depraved, and desperately wicked men come into slave States to excite insurrections, or to commit other crimes against our laws, and escape into free States, they must be given up for trial and punishment, when lawfully demanded by the constituted authorities of those States whose laws have been violated.
[color=red]
Second --- We must have proper and effective guarantees for the protection of slavery in the district of Columbia. We can never consent to the abolition of slavery in the district, until Maryland shall emancipate her slaves; and not then, unless it shall be demanded by the citizens of the district.
Third --- Our equality in the States and Territories must be fully recognized, and our rights of person and property adequately protected and accured. We must have guarantees that slavery shall not be interdicted in any Territory now belonging to, or which hereafter may be acquired by, the general government; either by the Congress of the United States or by the Territorial Legislature: that we shall be permitted to pass through the free States and Territories without molestation, and if a slave shall be abducted, that the State in which he or she shall be lost, shall pay the full value of such slave to the owner.
Fourth --- Like guarantees must be given, that the transmission of slaves between the slaveholding States, either by land or water, shall not be interfered with.
Fifth --- The passage and enforcement of rigid laws for the punishment of such persons in the free States as shall organize, or aid and abet in organizing, either by the contribution of money, arms, munitions of war, or in any other mode whatsoever, companies of men, with a view to assail the slaveholding States, and to excite slaves to insurrection.
Sixth --- That the general government shall be deprived of the power of appointing to local offices in the slaveholding States, persons who are hostile to their institutions, or inimical to their rights -- the object being to prevent the appointing power from using patronage to sow the seeds of strife and disunion between the slaveholding and non-slaveholding classes in the Southern States.
These guarantees can be given without prejudice to the honor or rights, and without a sacrifice of the interest, of either of the non-slaveholding states. We ask nothing, therefore, which is not clearly right and necessary for our protection: And surely, when so much is at stake, it will be freely, cheerfully and promptly assented to. It is the interest of the North and South to preserve the Government from destruction, and they should omit the use of no proper or honorable means to avert so great a calamity. The public safety and welfare demand instant action.
[/color]
Hmmmm...still no talk of tariffs....Slavery comes up once or twice.
Billy Yank!!
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The Storm Cometh-we hope the infatuated rebels like the appearance of the northern horizon. The storm of patriotism may shortly become the hurricane of vengeance, & they have only themselves to thank Those who sow the wind must reap the whirlwind! |
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Slavery was indeed part of our lifestyle here in the south
nobody is denying that fact however it was ALSO part of the Northern economy,
The point is the Northern states desired to controll more of southern crops and they desired to insert themselves into our quality of life which was unexceptable to us as a part of a "free nation"
The Yankees alighned themselves with Lnicoln and the union government whereas the rebels allighned ourselves with the succeeded government of the south in order to defend our homes and lifestyle from the northern invasion and and defend ourselves from aggresive northern intent of occupying our lands.
That was the reason for our involvment in the War of Northern aggression.
If slavery was part of the conflict then it was only because the yanks made it part of the conflict by Lincoln's own political agenda.
Licoln did not care for the welfare of the slaves he only used their plight as a tool to insight the riot which caused our succession in the first place.
You can ask ANYBODY I am just as much a patriot of our American government HOWEVER when it comes to our southern heritage I am also just as much the patriot.
NONE of us were there and have no direct knowledge of the real events that transpired in those days all we have are the books written from handed down stories through history and while they may be somewhat "historically accurate" they've been censored by the liberal left so much they cannot be construed as accurate or factual in our present day.
Here in the south our ansestors have passed down through the years ACTUAL writing from rebel troops who were there and who fought and died defending our lifestyle.
Tose documents have NOT been censored by government they are just as they were written when they're authors penned them.
I think you're depending too much on un authenticated scrap that the government would have us belive to further divide the north from the south and keep that "ball" rolling.
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Confederacy would have never been born."~W. Earl Douglas |
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PATCHES
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| Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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AMEN
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Faith is not a sense, nor sight, nor reason, but taking God at His word. |
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JohnnyReb
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:29 am Post subject: |
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1) Both the butcher / arsonist Sherman and his boss Grant owned slaves until 1865.
2) Lincoln himself said {paraphrasing} "If the war were over slavery there would be no war".
3) The yankee government had such high tariffs on Southern goods that the farmers could not afford to hire workers.
4) The right to own slaves was protected under the constitution until the emancipation proclamation, only 10% of Southern farmers even owned slaves & very few of the Officers of the CSA owned slaves and of those many of them freed their slaves prior to Mr. Lincoln's proclamation.
5) The Confederate Army was the only desegregated army until the U.S. Army of the 1950's. There were Black, Hispanic, American Indian & Jewish soldiers in the same units as Whites, the Union Army was segregated.
6) The U.S, slave ships were from New England and bore the flag of the "United States"
7) The largest mass slave grave yard was unearthed in New York.
What else you got Yank?
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Billyank1863
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| Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnnyReb wrote: |
1) Both the butcher / arsonist Sherman and his boss Grant owned slaves until 1865.
[b]Untrue...Grant's wife owned slaves until the 13th Amend. was ratifed and Grant had freed his slave in something like 1854-56. Sherman never owned a slave.
2) Lincoln himself said {paraphrasing} "If the war were over slavery there would be no war".
Where is this statement located...speech, decree???
3) The yankee government had such high tariffs on Southern goods that the farmers could not afford to hire workers.
From Mr. Keitt of s.c. during that states debate over secession.
But the Tariff is not the question which brought the people up to their present attitude. We are to give a summary of our causes to the world, but mainly to the other Southern States, whose co-action we wish, and we must not make a fight on the Tariff question.
http://history.furman.edu/~benson/docs/scdebate2.htm
Seems to me that the tariff was not the question. Hell, the tariff was so low in 1857 by demand of the south that it caused a sever depression/recession.
4) The right to own slaves was protected under the constitution until the emancipation proclamation, only 10% of Southern farmers even owned slaves & very few of the Officers of the CSA owned slaves and of those many of them freed their slaves prior to Mr. Lincoln's proclamation.
5) The Confederate Army was the only desegregated army until the U.S. Army of the 1950's. There were Black, Hispanic, American Indian & Jewish soldiers in the same units as Whites, the Union Army was segregated.
6) The U.S, slave ships were from New England and bore the flag of the "United States"
7) The largest mass slave grave yard was unearthed in New York.
What else you got Yank?[/b] |
I will have to research more on the rest...but I do have more....
Billy Yank!!
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The Storm Cometh-we hope the infatuated rebels like the appearance of the northern horizon. The storm of patriotism may shortly become the hurricane of vengeance, & they have only themselves to thank Those who sow the wind must reap the whirlwind! |
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JohnnyReb
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:07 am Post subject: |
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I still stand by my statements they are based in historical fact which is easy enough to find if you care to. The truth at times can be inconvenient however, but if you continue to get your information purely from books written and printed by yankees & scalawags in yankee or yankee occupied states {ever heard the adage "the victors write the history"} because there are some things northern historians and their sympathizers do not want you to know, then we will be at this for eternity. My research I've done over a 30 year period and it comes from authors & historians from all over this country as well as Europe.
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Billyank1863
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:29 am Post subject: |
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[size=18]Alright then, lets get down to the nuts and bolts of all this!
Let's take your first statement about Grant and Sherman having slaves.
Please post sources for your belief in this statement...books or online sources and I will do the same to refute your statement.
OK??
Billy Yank[/size]
_________________
The Storm Cometh-we hope the infatuated rebels like the appearance of the northern horizon. The storm of patriotism may shortly become the hurricane of vengeance, & they have only themselves to thank Those who sow the wind must reap the whirlwind! |
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Outsider
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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Did Grant own slaves??
| Quote: |
In 1858, while attempting to make a go in civilian life as a farmer
near St. Louis, MO, U.S. Grant acquired a slave named William Jones,
probably from his father-in-law, although the record is not entirely
clear. In March, 1859, Grant gave Jones his freedom despite the fact that
Grant desperately needed the money he might have recovered by selling him.
Grant's wife, Julia, had the use of four slaves as personal servants; the
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Hmm seems to me he did.
http://stason.org/TULARC/history/civil-war-usa/30-Did-U-S-Grant-and-R-E-Lee-both-own-slaves-and-free -the.html
AS for Sherman?
| Quote: |
| Though he came to disapprove of slavery, Sherman was not an abolitionist before the war, and like many of his time and background, he did not believe in "Negro equality". |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tecumseh_Sherman
So regardless of whether or not Sherman owned slaves personally he was STILL a bigot and NOT the hero he is portrayed to be.
And while we're on the subject of north vs south
IF the Yankees were so dead set of freeing the slaves as they claimed then why I ask you did it take them so long AFTER to free their own slaves??
| Quote: |
Abolition took so long in the North because most states bowed to the interests of northern slaveholders and moved to end slavery only gradually. Between 1780 and 1804 all states from Pennsylvania northward, with the exception of Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Vermont, enacted gradual emancipation statutes that had two principal features. First, slaves who were owned before the passage of these statutes remained slaves. A young slave born just a few years before passage of the New York statute in 1799, for example, could continue legally to be held in slavery in New York for decades into the nineteenth century.
http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/lhr/18.2/br_8.html
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Your ship of freedom is sinking quickly Billy Boy
You really shouldn't sail under false pretences in the first place because it only put holes in your sails   
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Confederacy would have never been born."~W. Earl Douglas |
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Billyank1863
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Outsider wrote: |
Did Grant own slaves??
| Quote: |
In 1858, while attempting to make a go in civilian life as a farmer
near St. Louis, MO, U.S. Grant acquired a slave named William Jones,
probably from his father-in-law, although the record is not entirely
clear. In March, 1859, Grant gave Jones his freedom despite the fact that
Grant desperately needed the money he might have recovered by selling him.
Grant's wife, Julia, had the use of four slaves as personal servants; the
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Hmm seems to me he did.
http://stason.org/TULARC/history/civil-war-usa/30-Did-U-S-Grant-and-R-E-Lee-both-own-slaves-and-free -the.html
[b]I said Grant did own a slaves, and I said he set him free...what I got wrong was the date...1854-56 instead of 1859.
AS for Sherman?
| Quote: |
| Though he came to disapprove of slavery, Sherman was not an abolitionist before the war, and like many of his time and background, he did not believe in "Negro equality". |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tecumseh_Sherman
So regardless of whether or not Sherman owned slaves personally he was STILL a bigot and NOT the hero he is portrayed to be.
And while we're on the subject of north vs south
So your quote and site proves me correct and your statement about Sherman owning slaves incorrect. Sherman was not a real friend of the black man, but during the glorious March to the Sea he was seen frequently shaking hands with and aiding blacks seen along the roads.
IF the Yankees were so dead set of freeing the slaves as they claimed then why I ask you did it take them so long AFTER to free their own slaves??
So long after what??...the Revolution???
| Quote: |
Abolition took so long in the North because most states bowed to the interests of northern slaveholders and moved to end slavery only gradually. Between 1780 and 1804 all states from Pennsylvania northward, with the exception of Massachusetts, New Hampshire, and Vermont, enacted gradual emancipation statutes that had two principal features. First, slaves who were owned before the passage of these statutes remained slaves. A young slave born just a few years before passage of the New York statute in 1799, for example, could continue legally to be held in slavery in New York for decades into the nineteenth century.
http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/lhr/18.2/br_8.html
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Your ship of freedom is sinking quickly Billy Boy
You really shouldn't sail under false pretences in the first place because it only put holes in your sails [/b] |
So basically what we have here is your own post proves you were wrong about your first statement. Do we want to try the others??
Billy
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The Storm Cometh-we hope the infatuated rebels like the appearance of the northern horizon. The storm of patriotism may shortly become the hurricane of vengeance, & they have only themselves to thank Those who sow the wind must reap the whirlwind! |
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Outsider
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| Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Billyank1863 wrote: |
[color=pinkSo long after what??...the Revolution???
Billy[/color] |
NO....
schmuck!
The civil war
or rather the war of nothern aggression.
Besides this is between you and Reb I'm standing down for now
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"If hate had been the prevailing emotion between the races, then it is a safe bet that the
Confederacy would have never been born."~W. Earl Douglas
Last edited by Outsider on Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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