Shyloh, this quote from your previous posting caught my attention and deserves some serious commentary:
"I understand Enforcer what you are stating, my only problem with the idea of drivers licenses for 'illegal' aliens is that as it stands right now (the emphasis being on right now) as long as you have a drivers liecense you can board an airplane, a cruise ship, get into a theme park, etc... you are not supplying any proof of anything other than the fact that you can drive. I have heard the idea toseed around that there would be different types of licenses which would differentiate people - make it possible to know if they are US citizens or not. As for giving out licenses so it will make the roads safer, I argue that all tests should be given in English then. When people are given tests in their native language, yet the signs on the streets are in English there are many accidents as a result."
Let me say that I agree that people should be able to pass a driver's license test in English. But, let's review something:
A driver's license is NOT identification... or at least it wasn't in a de jure (lawful) constitutional republic. You are implying that someone "needs" a driver's license to get onto public conveyance. Immediately, that puts the notion that we accept National ID in the form of a driver's license so that government can make us "safe."
The debate over immigration doesn't take into account that these issues affect a myriad of other political hot topics. For instance,
* Tax protestors were dealt a blow with Real ID when the forced use of the ssn suddenly "required" people to get an ssn in order to get a driver's license. And Real ID was a result of immigration debate. People fighting the unconstitutional 16th Amendment were thrown back to the dark ages on the ssn requirement.
Now, when you imply that we "need" identification in order to get into a theme park or use public conveyance, it opens up a pandoras box. Rather than make this posting real long, I will leave you a link (hopefully it will work.) It is a legal brief regarding the Right to Travel which is the focus of the litigation in the brief. Think about what you wrote and read pages 14 through 30 Then I'd like to hear your response:
Hey Enforcer - please take this as the compliment it is meant to be - if I EVER have to go to court I want YOU to represent me!
I read the link, had to get there by retyping it, but was able to get to it and read it. WOW, it opens up so many other points that NO I had not thought of.
I get caught up in what I have been 'trained' by the government to believe in. I thank you for helping me learn so much here. It's late and I have 2 sick kids here, so I cant quite put together my thoughts - actually, I think I have more questions, give me a day or so and check back - I will post them as I can... thanks again for helping me learn so much about this.
Shyloh _________________ "You must become an advocate of what you believe otherwise, you will become a victim of what others want you to believe" - author unkown
Thank you for the kind words. A lot of people don't understand what is at stake in this immigration debate. Again, it crosses paths with so many other issues that we have to examine it very closely.
In the course of this thread, I've made all but two of the major points about this subject (and I think we should include them) but, I'd like to say something and hope that you consider it as well.
In America, each year more than 425,000 Americans will die prematurely due to cigarette smoking. And of those, FIVE TIMES AS MANY NONSMOKERS WILL DIE DUE TO SECOND HAND SMOKE THAN DIE BY FIREARMS RELATED DEATHS! So, what does this have to do with immigration? Absolutely nothing, except that it puts the issue into perspective.
The American people have accepted the death rate and smoking is an "issue" but, it is not a problem... at least a "problem" that people are willing to alter their lifestyles in order to get rid of. No, we allow people to exercise their rights to do whatever they want to their bodies and attempt to accomodate smokers while protecting our own health at the same time.
I view this topic the same way. There was once an attack on American soil which claimed the lives of some 2403 people and that happened more than half a century ago. We didn't go into lock down mode and start talking about building walls around the United States, turning our country into a police state, and instituting National ID... and we survived that attack.
Therefore, I don't see the immigration thing as a "problem." I see it as an issue. And you hear all the numbers bandied about... 10 million, 12 million, 20 million, etc. I'll answer your next set of questions before we address that part of this discussion and you'll begin to see why I still think this is just an issue and not the "problem" that people have been conditioned, Pavlovian style, to think it is.
Oh, immigration has its risks. That's why I'm very cautious and state without reservation that guest workers should not expect that status to lead to automatic citizenship at any point. Furthermore, if an amnesty did happen which allowed them to become guest workers, the fact that they took advantage of it would give them less of an opportunity to become a citizen over their counterparts who never crossed the border illegally. Preference for citizenship would go to those who applied legally from the beginning.
Thanks again Shyloh for giving this subject a serious examination.
every thing the government will pass into law is not for our protection but theirs for, them immigration is only a "problem"because like prostitution they have no way of taxing it, every law is a stepping stone to a police state. war on drugs,war on poverty,war on obesity ,war on terrorism and so on, OK lets build a wall worked well in Germany, FOR THE COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT not for any one else remember check point Charlie. be weary of the government anytime they say" for your on good " or "for the children" new battle crys for the Communist or progressive party. sad thing is we fall for it hook line and sinker you don't see them complaining about the Canadian boarders and their wide open it is about taxes and power nothing else pretty simple relly
We need to secure the border and gain accountability before anything else. A country with out law and order will turn into chaos . I know you gun loving hillbilly vigilantes might like this but for the rest of the civilized Legal citizens we simply want to progress as a nation.
let me see if i can help you ASS this hillbilly might have to type a little slower so you can understand this when the creators of this country said a man has right granted to him by god he did not just mean people like you if you believe that the government is the answer you obviously missed the question. this idea that if the government does not have control then its out of control is an old one not a progressive one but it is a commie idea,what side do you bat for CITY SLICKER _________________ "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
- Claire Wolfe, 101 Things to Do 'Til the Revolution
"I know you gun loving hillbilly vigilantes might like this but for the rest of the civilized Legal citizens we simply want to progress as a nation."
The rules of this thread are posted on page 1 of this thread. In case you missed the one you just broke, it goes like this:
4) Be respectful toward one another and don't call people names nor post cartoons, pictures, etc. that detract from the spirit of this thread... and the spirit of this thread is the TRUTH.
You are welcome to your opinion but, we will not tolerate the name calling here. I ask the admin and moderators to let this posting stand and NOT delete it. But, if further attempts are made to make a mockery out a search for the truth by posting anythng contrary to the rules of this thread, I will not hesitate to ask the moderators and the admin, CDJ, to delete the offending portions of your postings as per the rules of the board AND of this thread.
"We need to secure the border and gain accountability before anything else."
Getting back on point, I'd like to know exactly what the above quote means. Honestly, I've been giving commentary on what I THINK it means. Please give us three or four examples of exactly what "securing our (sic) borders" entails.
"We need to secure the border and gain accountability before anything else."
Getting back on point, I'd like to know exactly what the above quote means. Honestly, I've been giving commentary on what I THINK it means. Please give us three or four examples of exactly what "securing our (sic) borders" entails.
Sorry if I am hooging your militia space. I am new to your forum and I don't know how to otherwise reply.
1) we need to stop the current on flow of people who choose not to follow rule on our southern border. I realize this might take away possible membership for your vigilantly movement but accountability is important.
2) Securing the border would be the same thing as not allowing drugs, unauthorized people, and future vigilantist to enter the nation.
3) MOG I still think you are a f***ing sick ba***rd and you can kiss my big white ass !!!! You know who this is and from upstate NY I would like to tell you to f**k off !!!
EDIT:
To clean up vulgar language. The character of the poster is clear.
"We need to secure the border and gain accountability before anything else."
Getting back on point, I'd like to know exactly what the above quote means. Honestly, I've been giving commentary on what I THINK it means. Please give us three or four examples of exactly what "securing our (sic) borders" entails.
Sorry if I am hooging your militia space. I am new to your forum and I don't know how to otherwise reply.
1) we need to stop the current on flow of people who choose not to follow rule on our southern border. I realize this might take away possible membership for your vigilantly movement but accountability is important.
2) Securing the border would be the same thing as not allowing drugs, unauthorized people, and future vigilantist to enter the nation.
3) MOG I still think you are a f***ing sick ba***rd and you can kiss my big white ass !!!! You know who this is and from upstate NY I would like to tell you to f**k off !!!
Apparently there has been a Militia group in GA raided by ICE. The Militia had illegal Mexicans building their compounds and proving cheap grounds keeping and maintenance fees. I guess this is an operation with leadership and recruitment efforts being tracked in Mexico.
I could be wrong on this story but I'm sure everyone favorite paralegal will be here soon to debunk this thread with a series of links for everyone to go to. Please do not go to these sites, the overload of propaganda may cause serious injury to your eyes.
EDIT:
To Continue to clean up vulgar language. My patience is wearing thin.
I am not seeing any open dialog here. MOG this is what I told you it would be on myspace. You and your f***ing militia wannbe real solders are advocating for illegal immigration. Possibly because militia membership is down but more likely is because you prefer law-breaking activity. Get rid of God in your argument and quit using the constitution with out putting it in a timely context. Moreover, quit trying to seduce people to this f***ing thread !!!!
EDIT:
Still cleaning up the mess. Even the longest fuse soon burns out!
You will cease and desist with the repeated abuse of this board, or I will not only report you to your ISP, as abusing, I will reprimand you by name on this forum.
Now, Clean up the language!
CDJ _________________ A ship in a harbor is safe, but that is not what they are made for.
If this is an open dialog I will not clean anything up. If your B**ch ass wants to tell on me, go for it. It shows you have no b***s and you are lacking a backbone. If you keep suggesting people from myspace to come here and be enlightened you might want to live up to your clams.
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