I've yet to join any militia, although I'm attracted to the movement. Like many people, however, there is a lot that puts me off.
Enforcer mentioned a comment about racism in another thread. I won't go on too much about this but I've always felt that I should treat people how I'd like to be treated. Basic human respect and decency that we're (usually) all taught when we're little. I've also wondered what I would be subject to if I weren't born in the skin I was and that grounds me and reminds me that racism is the enemy of real progress.
The other concern is a little deeper: religion. I know most militia-men are Christians and I don't have a problem with that on any fundamental level. My problem extends towards peoples conscious decision against the basic decency to other people (mentioned above.)
I've been subject to persecution from the Christian community. During my years at a small town college I was harassed considerably because I did not chose the Christian lifestyle. People talked behind my back, tried to keep me away from public gatherings and did everything they could to hurt me. When they found out I was dating a Christian (we're now married) they went so far as to call her family and pastor and spread vicious lies about me so they could break us up. They even contacted my professors with the same lies.
Now what hateful thing could I have done to spawn a year of this type of treatment? Well, nothing. I hung out with the group and it eventually got out that I wasn't a Christian. I'm not an atheist. I'm not really anything -- I simply haven't made my mind up about what I believe, I don't half-ass anything and I don't rush into anything. I've probably read more of the bible than most of the people attacking me but the group mentality can be cruel. I don't have much of a point to this except to say that there are people out there that share NEARLY all of your beliefs yet won't join because of fear of persecution and a lack of respect when you do find out. There inlays a problem for your organization as you could achieve much more if you were willing to accept ALL patriots, regardless of religion. Freedom does include religion, all of them. I'd also like to add in that if you're comfortable with your own relationship with god then you shouldn't need to worry about other peoples.
My last point would be the general name calling. The word liberal in specific. I'm not sure how this word was vilified but I'm about to share a little secret with you: you are a liberal. There is nothing conservative about fighting for the basic constitutional rights of your fellow citizens. There is nothing conservative about turning on the news and seeing through all the lies or remembering what politicians actually do versus what they say they do. This whole liberal versus conservative thing has gotten out of hand and it's very similar to kids at recess calling each other names. We're all so distracted with in-fighting that we'll never join together to get the crooks out of Washington. It's also been my experience that nobody fits exactly in to that mold anyway. I've met conservatives that are passionate about the environment over corporations. I would identify myself as more of a liberal and you better watch your ass if you think you're taking my guns. The fact is the politicians and the media have us distracted. There aren't red states or blue states -- there are United States.
InfoOps, I do not necessarily consider myself to be a "conservative." But, I will share with you why so many people in America have an aversion to liberals:
Norman Thomas, who ran for president on the Socialist Party Platform six times stated:
"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened."
Gus Hall, a communist leader in the United States once said:
"Socialism in America will come through the ballot box."
Nikita Krushev said:
"We can't expect the American People to jump from Capitalism to Communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving them small doses of Socialism, until they awaken one day to find that they have Communism."
Liberalism, democracy, socialism and then communism - call it what you like, but the communists defined their program. We can nitpick each other all day long about dictionary definitions, but they have their program and their agenda based upon code words.
Religion - I'm a Christian. I'm just not all that religious. By that, I mean that I don't have to shove my beliefs down your throat. However, the Bible, the Koran, the Torah... and most EVERY religion teaches that believers should only marry within their faith... most of them, except for those who want a one race, one religion one world type of government.
And InfoOps, I know persecution. It's practiced widely by those who think they have a monopoly on the truth and that nobody can question the prevailing concept of it. Watch my thread on the MOG Death Knell or Victory in this forum.
In my 24 years, socialism has mostly been discussed simply as part of history.
For those that don't know, socialism really wasn't intended to be the type of totalitarian government that it has turned in to. Socialism is an idealistic (that's the key word and main problem with it) solution to the problem of class-warfare that's existed since civilization itself. The idea was always that everyone does equal work for equal benefit and nobody gets left behind for situations outside their control. I know this because many of my friends are socialists and anarchists.
I have come to the conclusion that the ideal solution isn't always the right one because it depends on everybody wanting the same thing. Socialism would never work for anything larger than a small community (perhaps a small town).
The way I see it: democracy is the sweet spot—the happy middle between chaos (anarchy) and absolute order (authoritarian/totalitarian government.)
I don't equate liberalism with socialism and even if I did, I don't fear socialism. I simply know it would never work. What I do equate liberalism with is an open mind. The ability to challenge pre-conceived ideas and always strive for something better. To be conservative in thought it to put history and tradition before progress. While a lot can be learned from history and tradition, we simply cannot move forward by refusing to try new things and always strive to make the world a better place.
That's why the idea of nationalism/patriotism has always scared me a little. I owe so much to the REAL patriots that came before me but I also feel that I owe it to them to continue to make America the best place it can be. It seems like the second somebody living elsewhere in the world comes up with a great idea or solution for a problem it's shot down because we're Americans and if we didn't make it then it must suck. The problem with that is what made America different and great is the mix. America was something new. People came from all over the world to join this nation when it started and we took the best from everyone. We worked harder than the rest of the world and we dreamed bigger. If they came up with an idea (like Democracy, which can be traced back to France of all places) we were willing to accept it and better ourselves. Now it's almost a sin to try something new that other countries have pulled off.
I'm done venting from now. I'm sure my 'liberalism' will spawn a group of enemies on this board but they should be able to take it. We're all different but we can work together.
Democracy: "Democracy: a government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of direct expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude toward property is communistic… negating property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of a majority shall regulate, whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudices or impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Result is demogogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy."
U.S. Army Official Training Manual No. 2000-25 (Between 1928- 1932)
"Democracy is itself, a religious faith. For some it comes close to being the only formal religion they have." E.B. White
"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. The jaws of power are always open to devour, and her arm is always stretched out, if possible, to destroy the freedom of thinking, speaking, and writing. Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the People, who have... a right, an indisputable, unalienable, indefeasible, divine right to that most dreaded and envied kind of knowledge, I mean the characters and conduct of their rulers. There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free 'government' ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among people." John Adams (2nd President of the United States)
"While a lot can be learned from history and tradition, we simply cannot move forward by refusing to try new things and always strive to make the world a better place."
RESPONSE: A few years before you were a gleam in your daddy's eye, I had the same attitude. Having been to school and read a lot of books it was easy to think I had a monopoly on understanding. At this age, the learning process never ends. So, nobody should be hating on you (that's the current PC language I hope.) What you're saying so far is repackaged material that us political science majors read back twenty to thirty some years ago.
The Bible puts it another way: "Vanity of vanities, sayeth the Preacher. All is vanity and there is nothing new under the sun..." Ecclesiastes 1:9
Maybe you don't believe in the Bible, but just as a secular historical text, it's hard to refute that small truth.
No matter how you package socialism, liberalism and / or communism, they suck. The United States is the ONLY nation on this globe which teaches that your "Creator" (your God, whomever you deem that to be) bestows Rights upon you that NO mortal man is authorized to take from you - except as punishment for an actual crime committed.
In terms of freedom, liberty and personal rights, the United States has led the way. We have been the most productive nation in recorded history and every nation on the face of the earth benefits off our charity, technological advances and wealth (which we generate here.)
It's not as good as it once was and America is going down the toilet - but, that is because too many people want the U.S. to become like Europe. And if you look at the world situation, you really wouldn't want to regress to the kinds and types of systems that our forefathers fled in order to establish a nation conceived in Liberty.
From what i've read of your post so far InfoOps i'd say stick with ENFORCER he'll take you were you need to go.
And if i forgot to say so before..WELCOME to the BOARD.
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