In a few minutes, the NOTICE AND APPEAL which began as a Rough Draft will be posted in a separate thread.
In THIS thread, we will discuss what comes next... AFTER you sign the NOTICE AND APPEAL. It's just a document. Where we go from signatory, forward is very important.
You've got to say to yourself, I signed that document. Now what???
The NOTICE AND APPEAL does not end with your signature. It's only the beginning of an adventure. If you have not checked the NOTICE AND APPEAL, look for it in this forum, read it and sign it. Then visit this thread often.
The NOTICE AND APPEAL is now on the board, awaiting your signature. So, what does it all mean? Where do we go from here? What makes this document any different from any other?
In the presidential race, a new president will be chosen within a few short weeks. In a few months from now the America you once knew and loved will be no more. Honestly, we all expect that the socialist - Muslim, Barack Obama will be elected. And, with Democrats running both houses of Congress AND the executive department of government, we will be transformed into a socialist cesspool by this time next year. And even if fate deals the Republicans a miracle, you have to remember that John McCain is a RINO (Republican In Name Only.)
For more than twenty years I have watched, mostly from the sidelines, while America has gone down the crapper. A lot of organizations and ideas have come and gone. Great intentions have been started and then dissolved like an Alka Seltzer in water. Now, it is down to the wire. And all the years of B. S.ing each other come down to the NOTICE AND APPEAL along with what you and I do from that moment forward.
I've been working on another thread which will tell you from start to finish what you should be considering as a militiaman. You can check it out at:
Today, the time has come for unity and action. For years I asked people what their lines in the sand were. Most would not put them into print publicly. But, I listened and now they are in the NOTICE AND APPEAL. And today, the end is near. The opportunity to either choose freedom or slavery is upon us. And there is a popular maxim of law that applies here: "Qui tacet consentit" is Latin for "silence implies consent."
If all you do is sign a petition and then comply with an unconstitutional law, the courts will ultimately say that you forfeited your right to argue the illegality of that law. You would be compelled to obey it.
EVERY complaint enumerated in the NOTICE AND APPEAL will be on the block when the next Congress convenes. You either stand up and reject their tyranny or accept socialism. There are no other alternatives. And when the powers that be disagree with your commitment to freedom and liberty, you must have a back up plan.
Between now and when the new laws go into effect, we will be discussing the alternatives and preparing for the New World Order. Only a few of you will have what it takes to cut the umbilical cord to government, but for those that do, we have the ability to build something which can help save us and our country. First, I need for ALL of you that are for real to add your name and contact info on the thread containing the NOTICE AND APPEAL. Thank You and Godspeed
I am sorry enforcer, but this is very difficult for me. I know what is going on and its not about right or left..... this is about a coup and the creation of a "GLOBAL FASCIST STATE"....
This was done by leaders of both houses including repub leaders, dem leaders, Mccain and Obama just voted for the bail out, so you can see this is a clear message from them to us........ WE OWN YOUR CANDIDATES, YOU DO NOT.
THIS SYSTEM IS NOW DEAD, ITS TIME TO MOVE FORWARD, GET OFF THE DEFENSIVE AND ONTO THE OFFENSIVE, time for creativity and ingenuity for which we as a nation have always been noted for. If we have sufficient people who have some courage, then we can overturn this....
But first, look what the agenda in the above link is, and our future which should begin about february 2009 this next year.... you have only a few months to prepare by getting two years supply of food, do not make your mortgage payments, instead by provisions, ammo, weapons and gilly suits and begin digging caches all over the damn place to hide your stuff. batteries galore, proper clothes, etc.
Start doing a list of what we should be doing...... LETS TAKE THIS BACK TO THEM....... the creativity comes in deciding how to do that.....LOL
Now is NOT the time for the typical knee jerk, reactionary stuff that the patriot "movement" (for lack of a more descriptive adjective) does.
Now is the time to legitimately put the government on notice that what they are doing is wrong - and for what reasons it is wrong.
Responses must be the correct one: both in God's eyes and in the eyes of the average person, both of whom will judge us. A measured and correct response will bring support. The wrong reaction will bring riducule and pressure of which you don't need.
You must be justified both legally and morally. And you have to have a real plan, not that buy a bunch of junk and bury it cow dung you've been hearing for years. Check the links I'm providing and then get back to us.
Yes, I know, I apologize, I read your comments about coming here with our comments, but I didn't realize they had to be a certain way only.
good luck. We are so far beyond that it isn't even funny, but what is really sad is how few people see it until the end...... As Ron Paul said yesterday, if they pass this we will be slaves and will enter the worse dark ages ever in this country, so choices will have to be made whether you like it or not.
Its not even material what we think,,,, we are now an occupied country, a coup has been performed and the end is nigh unto us about feb 2009. This is economic terrorism and treason. I have nothing to discuss with them anymore..... you don't discuss treason. You honestly think the system still works after these past two days???? You think someone cares what you think after over 1 million people called and they are doing it anyway????
This below is a description of "Global fascism" and we are seeing it right now where they will take what we earn when ever they feel like it and we will have no say in it.
I will keep posting this until you read it... once you read this then go back reread what you said above and tell me exactly who you intend to go to with your petition????? Or even your demands???? Who will give a damn?
Prescott Bush has achieved his goal of a fascist global system without even firing a shot and he did it through his progeny. That is some feat for a family of low brow brainless idiots, huh???
"I will keep posting this until you read it... once you read this then go back reread what you said above and tell me exactly who you intend to go to with your petition????? Or even your demands???? Who will give a damn"
RESPONSE: Under both international / federal laws as well as the laws of God, we are required to pursue ALL nonviolent and peaceful avenues of resolution. Granted, you are right. The people who will get this petition don't give a damn. Might is right. Democracy rules. But, we will have done our part.
The REST of this program - that is what happens AFTER the public reads this petition and we act on it is what comes next.
So, brothers and sisters, you have a choice: the Sky is Falling head for the hills reactionary stance that becomes so popular OR a measured response and well planned resistance to what is about to happen in America. Pepper can over-react and go about this half cocked OR she has the opportunity to stay with us and hear us out. BTW, Pepper, I am as equally determined that the people on this board READ the entire resonse that is available on some other threads on this board. Links to those methods of responding will be put into this thread as well.
The REST of this program - that is what happens AFTER the public reads this petition and we act on it is what comes next.
And exactly how and who do you think is going to publish this SO THE PUBLIC WILL EVEN SEE IT??? were you planning on the NY times maybe, or what?
Quote:
So, brothers and sisters, you have a choice: the Sky is Falling head for the hills reactionary stance that becomes so popular
Is that what you call what I am questioning???? Then you wonder why people don't come here? That is very disrespectful to disparage my concerns or questions..... what you might have tried to do instead was to ask some of your own like ................
"Gee, Pepper, what has gone on that has caused you to "react" in this manner, I would genuinely like to know".... See, how nice that is and yet still gets your point across.
Here is the irony Ironman, that is exactly how our politicians treat us as well and I don't need to come here and get the same treatment as the egotistists on the hill dish out. Forget it, I don't feel like fighting my fellow Americans or judging them because they don't think EXACTLY LIKE I DO nor do I feel like taking abuse, when I can get that just from the bankers, wall street and congress... So, good luck with your journey, I am going to find my own with those who want to do something for real.
You didn't even ask what it was I did think we needed to do, you just assumed (makes and ass out you and me) that I wanted to go running into the hillls and play rambo or something... now that is really bad assumption about a woman by herself, LOL You have no idea what anyone else out here is doing do you???
There are people making changes and not through the system, rather beginning locally and unofficially on the ground within communities. You are going to have your parents and old people to worry about by february 2009 so you best get ready on the ground instead of your fantasy pie in the sky BS within a system that no longer exists...... your going to be one of the last on the planet to realize that when they finally tell you its the case. LOL
I want to respond to Pepper's postings, but first let me clarify something. This morning, as I was running out the door, I responded in the same verbiage as Pepper by referring to the NOTICE AND APPEAL as a "petition."
The NOTICE AND APPEAL is not exactly a petition. It is as the name implies. It puts the political powers on notice that certain citizens have used their power for a redress of grievances AND it tells your fellow patriot brethren that you have taken a stand. So, it serves a dual purpose.
Now, let me respond to Pepper.
Pepper wrote: "And exactly how and who do you think is going to publish this SO THE PUBLIC WILL EVEN SEE IT??? were you planning on the NY times maybe, or what?"
RESPONSE: Actually Pepper, I was counting on you. Those who read this forum can pass the NOTICE AND APPEAL link along to several other groups, who in turn, can pass it on. Those who are for real and sincere would then present it to their elected officials.
Pepper wrote (after quoting my criticism of her previous post): "Is that what you call what I am questioning???? Then you wonder why people don't come here?"
RESPONSE: I called Pepper's reactionary admonishments as being a "head for the Hills, the Sky is Falling knee jerk reaction." I stand by my statement. Why? Let me quote Pepper's posting on that. Pepper wrote:
"But first, look what the agenda in the above link is, and our future which should begin about february 2009 this next year.... you have only a few months to prepare by getting two years supply of food, do not make your mortgage payments, instead by provisions, ammo, weapons and gilly suits and begin digging caches all over the damn place to hide your stuff. batteries galore, proper clothes, etc."
Pepper know this: I have been involved in the system for a number of years. I was a campaign manager and active in local / national politics. I've personally been in court now on 34 occasions (never lost and was never over-turned on appeal.) I just went through an ordeal which lasted for over a year involving a young child who I was trying to save from DFACS. Unfortunately, I had no standing in the case and have been unable to save him from a foster mother who sent him into my care with a black eye, dirty, bruises on his arms, etc. THERE IS NOTHING THAT YOU, PEPPER, NOR ANY SWINGING SOUL ON THE FACE OF GOD'S GREEN EARTH CAN TELL ME ABOUT HOW EVIL THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS.
I've been run through the criminal justice system, had my life put into jeopardy, faced death threats, had officers of the court commit perjury against me (and found I had no recourse against them.) I know what it's like to be lied to, lied about, pursued, beaten and even jailed on phony charges. I have an acre lot that is relatively square (200 ft by 200 ft.) I looked it over real good one day and thought about all the friends I've had who were murdered by the LEO community over their political ideology. If they were placed side by side on that lot, there wouldn't be enough room to hold them all.
When I have advocated standing up, I have detractors (even on this board) who whine and moan about what may happen if we stand our ground. And, if I do nothing, some will say that because I didn't support some ill conceived idea (usually those lacking planning), that's why people don't come here. Every time I disagree, someone gets pizzed off and says that since I disagree with their POV, they are leaving, blah, blah, blah. So, here's the deal:
I'm not here to make friends nor impress people. If you think there is a better way to approach the problem, by all means pursue it. I've read enough history books, law books and military strategy texts to know, in principle, what must be done. And nobody else is doing it.
You have to put the powers that be on notice. You have to reach others who share your concerns. And you have to resist bad laws and corrupt leaders in an acceptable / "legal" manner. Once you've complied with the expectations of society, you may have to ratchet up your responses.
That is why, if you checked the threads I tell people to visit, you will see a common thread in the Magna Carta and the Declaration of Independence. If you watched the movies Braveheart and The Patriot (Mel Gibson's best movies), you see the same corollaries I keep presenting to you on how to resist successfully. The method is known in most historical literature. If you pursue anything else, you will accept whatever evil you think is threatening us today - and in a week, month or year later, you will still be unhappy, but you'll just be chasing a different boogeyman.
I invite people to come here - discuss, debate, or whatever. It won't help to get your panties in a bunch. The idea I'm presenting is worth going forward with and it's worth defending. And just because I disagree with you doesn't mean you can't say what you want - somewhere on this board. But, if you do it on this particular thread... I WILL challenge it. Doesn't prevent you from doing it. So, your First Amendment Rights are guaranteed here - but, then again, so are mine.
Pepper you got spirit and heart....Strengthen it with Knowledge,Patience,and your belief in GOD.
Stay and work with us,believe me there are a lot of US here who'd knock each others head clean off,but this is in house..and the house will clean it self.
The NOTICE and APPEAL is a good thing, alot of hard work went into it just read it slowly like i did(I'M I.Q CHALLENGED Y'KNOW)line by line you'll be glad you did.
Let me clear somethings up first. I am not upset and leaving because of disagreements. I started my part of this thread to have conversation, that is why someone posts, isn't it?
I expect to learn and to teach, since we all have something to learn and something to teach, don't we???? WHAT I DON'T EXPECT IS TO BE TALKED TO LIKE SOME CATTLE OR SHEEP. I am human and born with the right to expect a minimum amount of respect for just showing up on this earth. That is all I expect, I AM WILLING TO EARN THE REST OF THE RESPECT THAT I DESIRE. I give respect in the same way.
You notice, I didn't not call you names, make assumptions about you or your intent on anything, how could I, I don't know you so that would be a stupid move on my part.... instead I have responded to your insults (enforcer).
Its ok to be wrong about things, you know? Its how you learn, but I have a genuine interest in sharing because WE ARE PRETTY DAMN CLOSE TO THERE..... so I am in a hurry to find something that works.
Getaway Man, thank you for your kind words and your suggestion that I read that document. I will read it all the way through, I promise, however, like all of you, I only have so much time between surviving and trying to improve my health (had a heart attack a year ago), that I have to choose what it is I believe will be needed.
As a woman, I go by "feelings" a lot, or as I like to say, "the Holy Spirit"
I have had an uncanny ability to hear the spirit without understanding "why" I have to do something, but what I learned over time was to listen to it because every time I did not..... I got badly burned and very seriously too.
I made a deal with God that if I agree to listen to it at all times, would he quit using a baseball bat to get my attention? He agreed because I haven't had a baseball bat hit me in over a year...... LOL If I let my "head" get in the way, then I pray for clarification and then I wait.
So, that gives you a little bit about me. Now my survival situation is a real one.... I live in a barn in the mountains with no sewer, no bathroom, no kitchen and no running water or drainage. In addition, I have only a wood burning stove for heat, I obtain all my water from the river on the property I live on. I use a steripen to sterilize the water and that is a huge job. Hauling water, hauling wood, chopping wood, cutting fallen limbs for kindling, seasoning it and protecting it from rain and snow. I have fruit trees on the 2.5 acres I live on on the river.....I am not complaining about my situation, rather, I am exhilarated by it.
I have lost weight, I am more fit than I was 20 years ago, I brook no garbage anymore from just about anyone, I live in nature, with no neighbors and no noise except that of wind, birds, and other small critters with an occasional bear or two and whole slew of deer and elk.
At night its so dark that I can see the milky way laying in my bed looking straight up at the windows and seeing all those glorious stars and I sleep to the sound of a river rushing by my building especially after the snow melt or a doggone good 3 day rain.
I make jewelry, do art work, and when the mood strikes me I go gold panning in the river.....
OK, that about does it. Now you may understand, or at least I hope you do, why I was pushing about this stuff......
I will read the contract and get back to you with my comments IF THEY ARE WELCOME WITHOUT ANY PERSONALIZING RESPONSES..... Its called "setting a boundary" OK??
Pepper, If you read what I wrote, you will learn that I most assuredly did not call you any names.
The response you came out with is a typical response - one the right has learned through a repetitive process. I'm trying to avoid what we've done in the past and move forward BEFORE the system coronates Obama as King of the United Socialist States of Amerika.
If I hurt your feelings, bear one thing in mind. My opinion and a dollar or two might buy you a cup of coffee in a few low priced restaurants in America.
Sorry about your health conditions. Please take care of yourself and don't let the hype on this board raise your blood pressure. It's all words amongst family.
... names... the issue is one of respect.... just meditate on it for a while and decide if that is something you can handle... if its just out of the range of something you can do, then so be it.
Pepper, I get that a lot, so you must be right, but let me explain myself.
This thread is not about petitions or the programs offered by others. It is about the NOTICE AND APPEAL. In the past, we've posted rules and asked people to stay on topic. In my worthless opinion, reading the rules and reading the opening posts concerning a topic would show a sign of respect.
That you have not done. Instead, you came onto this thread and started pushing your agenda. While it's certainly welcome at Liberty Forum, it just wasn't applicable to this thread. The fact is, we provided an entire forum for the people who are NOT officers of MOG or board admins / moderators to start topics on. It's called YOUR VIEW.
We are down to the wire on this - the NOTICE AND APPEAL must be completed and have some signatures of people ready, willing and able to live up to their word BEFORE the next president is sworn in. If we don't start objecting with a unified voice the moment the next president takes office, we may have to accept the unlawful acts of the next administration by default. It's like this: You cannot allow unconstitutional acts to be implemented and accept them AND AFTERWARDS complain. The law don't work that way. We have to be in front of our opponents, not behind them.
If I stop every posting to debate other people's petitions, etc. then we cannot progress on this one. I maintain that this one is different because we will be discussing what comes next and Plans B and C. We will be giving links to other discussions concerning how to prepare now for what is about to happen. In other words, the NOTICE AND APPEAL is not merely a petition. It puts our lines in the sand into a concise statement and gives us something to work toward.
When you've been doing this stuff full time for over 20 some years (and similar work for a decade and a half prior to that), it gets frustrating to see the same old, same old repeating itself in cyclical fashion and years down the road, nothing to show for it. This is something different.
You can't learn what it is we have IF you're not willing to read it. And that is where I could say some people don't respect me nor the work I put into getting people to discuss ONE plan... not all the other ones out there. Pepper, if the other guys had a plan beyond their initial petitions, declarations, complaints, etc. I'd gladly jump on their bandwagon if it addressed the concerns of the NOTICE AND APPEAL. But, they don't. That's why you haven't seen any progress in a couple of decades.
Respect goes two ways. In my opinion, it is unfair to change the subject of a topic. And that is why you met resistance. And unfortunately, since we decided to be proactive, everybody and his brother are trying to sell us on declarations, petitions, complaints, etc. None of them have a follow up plan. Well, the Confederate guys do, but I don't see that America returning in my lifetime. Anyway, we're trying to do ten years worth of work in three or four months. And if I come off as insulting, it's because we need to stay on topic on certain threads and get something done. Look at it like this: We now have about ten posts over this misunderstanding. How many people do you think will actually read this thread when we haven't even begun to discuss what the topic was originally about?
either apologize and move on, nor can you simply just solve a problem, I quit reading after the first line cause I could see where this was going and its not where I want to be.
Nothing personal, just a suggestion, if you email out a link to someone like you did me after may months if not years of not doing it, then expect them to post where you sent the link. OK? Or POLITELY AND RESPECTFULLY INFORM THEM OF THEIR ERROR. See? simple and quick.
DO NOT WASTE ALL THIS INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF BANDWIDTH IN CHAOS AND DRAMA, WE ARE ABOUT TO HAVE THAT SHORTLY WITHIN ABOUT 10 DAYS, SO WE DON'T NEED IT HERE OR BETWEEN EACH OTHER. But again, I have said it before and you apparently do not agree so, no more conversation on that.
I want to save my country and I will go where they are serious about doing the same thing and quit the petty squabbling and rude behavior. I am gone....... don't bother answering cause I am not going to respond.
If anyone else wants to talk with me just sent a private message..
THEY JUST SHIPPED 800 MILLION AMEROS TO CHINA from that bail out yesterday, so we have very very little time left.... they are regionalizing and then globalizing and Paulson is in charge of completing that, and the bill has provisions that put dissidents in mental wards.... just like Hitler did.
The bail out bill also allows Paulson to transfer our mortgage on hour property to a foreign entity who can then actually come on our land and take our property.... theres more, but not here, I understand that.
THE SENATE JUST PASSED THE EXPANDED LAW OF THE SEA THAT NEGATES THE CONSTITUTION, so we are under some pressure here. ALL OF THIS IN JUST UNDER A WEEK. MAKES YOUR HEAD SPIN. If anyone else is interested we need to get going... thanks, sorry I interrupted your deal here....... just don't send me anymore links.
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